abomination of desolation

by tula 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  JCanon

  Narkissos:

  As to the text under discussion, and especially the time connection of the Jerusalem "great tribulation" and the "sign of the Son of Man," it is noteworthy that the typically Markan eutheôs ("immediately") occurs in the extant text of Matthew (24:29), not in Mark!

  While many debate over what "immediately" means to try to adjust their own understanding, the chronologist doesn't have to. That's because the "great tribulation" here was the Holocaust. The Holocaust ends in 1945 but the Jews are not restored to their new homeland until 1947, the official end of the "appointed times of the nations." What happens "immediately" after this is the spiritual darkness of the Watchtower Society. This is the time when the "ten virgins" (also representing the anointed ones of the WTS) nod and their lamps begin to dim. That means they would not know completely the details of the secretive second coming of the messiah.

  Even so, others would begin to see the "sign of the son of man." A representation of the sign of the son of man, which is a sleeping black child seen in the clouds next to a bird-like figure, a dove or more likely an eagle is represented in the "Revelation" book which was published in 1988. But the actual second coming does not occur until 45 years after 1947 in 1992. Therefore, that "sign" likely began rather "immediately" after the end of that great tribulation as well. Exactly when? I'm not sure. But likely around the time of the birth of the second coming messiah. That is, the person who would become a witness, live the life of the prodigal son and upon returning at the last minute become the messiah ahead of his faithful older brothers (i.e. the older faithful anointed ones in the WTS).

  So it happened just as the Bible says. After the Holocaust the sign began to appear. The messiah would be tested for 40 years before being redesignated as the messiah, arriving for that purpose at the beginning of the 70th week which is 1989-1996. In that case the sign may have begun to appear as early as mid-1949, less than two years after November 30, 1947.

  The sign appears to the holy ones who are watching the life of the messiah. The prodigal son messiah is thus spoken of as a CORPSE: "Where the corpse is, so the eagles will be gathered." The prodigal son messiah is not aware that he is the messiah until he actually becomes the messiah, but the "eagles" that expect him are aware of him and follow and intervene in his life as necessary.

  There's no need to twist the scriptures when you have both truth and reality.

  JCanon
• 

  writetoknow

  One must ask a serious question; Where is the Holies of Holies today?

  "But when Christ arrived as High Priest of promised blessings, He passed through the greater and more perfect tent, not made with hands; no part . that is, of material creation. Heb 9:11

  Where do Gods people worship today?

  "I perceive, sir, that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you say that Jerusalem is the proper place to worship".

  Jesus told her, Believe me, woman that hour has come when you shall worship the Father neither merely in this mountain nor merely in Jerusalem.

  But the hour comes - and is now - when genuine worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is looking for such as His worshpers,

  "The Spirit is the life-giver; the flesh does not benefit at all. the messages I bring you are spirit and life."

  "It is written in the Prophets, And they shall all be taught of God."

  "Once more He told them, I go away and you will look for me, but you will die in your sin; the place to which I go you are not able to come."

  "Do you not know that you are God's temple and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone ruins the temple of God, God will ruin him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you."

  "Through the Spirit, however, God has revealed it to us; for the Spirit examines everything, even the deep things of God."

  "So when I came to you, Brothers, I came with no distinction of eloquence or of wisdom, when I announced to you God's testimony; for I wanted to know nothing in you midst except Jesus Christ and HIm crucified."

  "On the Lord's day I became Spirit-possessed and heard behind me a voices as mighty as a trumpet, that said, Write what you see in a book and dispatch it to the seven churches."

  When a person starts from a lesser premise, that of, physcial to explan the spiritual reality it must be wrong.

  The Holy Spirit, too affirms it to us, for after the saying, This is the covenant I will conclude with them after those days," the Lord says , I will place My laws upon their hearts and inscribe them on their minds."

  "Instead, we have come up to Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem."

  Men seeking the deep things of God without His Holy spirit are puffed up with pride they remain in their sin and expect the scriptures to explain what only the Holy Spirit can teach.

  The Spirit and the bride say, come!"

  "To which Jesus replied, If I ascrbed glory to Myself, My glory would be worthless."

  "You investigate the Scriptures, because you suppose that you have eternal life in them, and yet they are the testimonies for me."

  I am the Bread of Life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert and died this is the Bread thatcomes down from heaven, so that anyone who eats of it may not die. I am the Living Bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever."
• 

  Iron Rod

  Narkissos...Thanks for your input.Its always very much appreciated. I've only recently begun to study what real scholars (as opposed to Scholars' "celebrated Watchtower scholars.") say about the extant manuscripts. The thing that has really struck me is the fact that there are so many detectable redactions and additions in the Bible books. We certainly never read about any of that in the Watchtower, did we?

  To me,that just makes it tough to take the Bible seriously. How is it that writings inspired and guided by Almighty God need such tweaking. On the other hand,one would expect just that from the writings of men. Not to mention the fact that we have so many "spiritual leaders" that have to interpret what these writings mean. And of course they always, no matter who they are, are the only ones with the correct understanding.( I'm not mentioning any names ***cough,cough***but you get my point.) If the Bible is really what it purports to be,why would there be so many different, changing versions of what it means? Wouldn't an Almighty God have the power to see that his book was written accurately the first time?
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  Narkissos

  Thank you IR

  I'd rather think of the Bible canon as a prison -- a golden prison maybe, but a prison nonetheless; texts have been caught here and there, severed from their "original" literary and conceptual settings and thrown into it, regardless of their "author's intent". I have no reason to be angry at them for that. Indeed, I am quite admirative of the way they have fared in captivity: how they constantly managed to create new spaces of interpretive freedom within the artificial constraints of narrower or anachronistic intertextuality. Even the most farfetched interpretations are a testimony to the potentially infinite liberating power of scripture, in the basic sense of writing...

  We have been jailed with them, rather than by them; and we may also break free with them rather than against them.
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  Leolaia

  Very nice metaphor, Narkissos, and welcome to JWD, Iron Rod.
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  writetoknow

  And that is the point! There were to be no "spiritual leader" if you read your bible that spiritual leader is Christ Jesus and it is God Holy Spirit that writes God Law of love in His children heart.

  So the proof is in the pudding as they say. Even a fool can see that speculation of dates has never worked if one can come off their self-edification long enough to check out the history of dates and the many claim to understandings of Revelation's.

  Thus, the scriptures are a dichotomy and as for those that state it takes scriptures to explain scriptures the scriptures themselves state it requires God Spirit to explain scriptures. However, the majority of human race want to explain the scriptures without God's Spirit!

  Strange dichotomy indeed! It is reminiscent of the haughty Jews that could not understand Christ teachings because his teaching were spirit filled. Subsequently, the scriptures angred those Jews when taught by Chirst and later his disciples upon receving the Holy Spirit.

  However, those that loved God had no problem with Christ and his spirit lead teachings. People that want and demand absolutes from the scriptures will never understand them demand as they will. But they will continue in their distrust, hate and sin demanding perfection when perfection does not exist through the scriptures nor can they understand that statement.

  So another dichotomy confronts those that want to explain the scriptures; who was the bible written for? And who must a person accept in order to receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit? The Jews claimed ownership of the Holy writings and yet killed the one they spoke about!

  If the scriptures produce hate, discontent and distrust in the heart of the person reading them, then what value are they? Moreover, if they produce the opposite of their stated intent what is missing in you? And if somethings is missing in you how would you know the truth? And why do you seek truth when you can't accept the truth?
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  Iron Rod

  Thanks Leolaia!

  Narkissos..I too liked your analogy. In fact your point regarding Bible canon adds to my earlier point about the Bible not really being Gods word. When you examine the process by which the canon was established,it doesn't inspire confidence in the Divine nature of the Bible. I mean,books like Revelation making in in by the skin of its teeth, while many other books(revered as sacred Scripture by many Chistians) were left out.All of this predicated upon the votes of some church leaders and Constantine.

  I don't want to give you the wrong impression, however.I am in awe of the talents that the Bible writers displayed. After all, it took many centuries for scholars to really get a handle on some of the redactions,etc. I bear no malice towards the Bible itself or the writers. As I said, I just find it hard to accept that the Bible was truly inspired of God.

  I do, however,harbor much ill will for self-appointed gurus(such as the Watchtower Society) who use the Scriptures to control other people,sometimes to the point of costing the person their life.

  I'm always glad to hear from you both!