What should I say to Mom to really help her?

by OnTheWayOut 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Anyone who is following my threads knows that I post most everything about my
    wife's loyalty to the WTS and the fade I am doing. I don't post much about my mother.
    If you did catch it, I told her several months ago that I had stepped aside as an elder.
    She had asked if it was a personal problem, then was it a problem with the BOE.
    I told her that it was a problem with the organization itself. I directly told her that it
    was about the clergy privilege of the elders who committed sins, then were able to
    remain as elders keeping their secret, and it was also about not being able to promote
    doctrine from the Governing Body without really knowing anything about the Body and
    the men.

    Anyway, she let it go in one ear and out the other. A couple months later, she asked
    something about the District Convention. She said that it was difficult to sit through the
    3 days and asked how I did it. I told her that I went out-of-town with the wife, but didn't
    go in to the meeting. (This is the thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/138549/1.ashx)
    Mom just found a way to pretend everything is fine with me and Jehovah's Witnesses.

    So now everything is fine with Mom. She totally acts as if I am a good Witness. She
    asked me for help with the WT CD-ROM recently for her upcoming talk. She said friends
    from her hall visited mine and met my wife, but didn't see me. I said I wasn't there and
    I was ready to say more, but she changed the topic.

    Here I am now, wanting to just say things to her. Something like, "Mom, I no longer go to
    the meetings. I have decided to stop letting the meetings influence my thinking. I think for
    myself and enjoy the clarity." I am looking for the best way to say that or opinions on how
    much to say. I feel that Mom will need to think I am a witness in good standing. I don't
    know that she would shun me if I went further, my instinct says NO, but I just am not sure
    enough.

    If she did shun me, I could stay in contact with her husband (UBM). I have resisted talking
    to him because he would believe WTS is a mind-control cult and try to forcibly take her out
    of there. That would make her believe that Satan is putting pressure on her. If I am shunned,
    I might give it a try.

    So, input please. What should I say? How far should I go? (It's Sunday night. I will BTTT tomorrow
    if necessary.)

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    Mom, I love you and always will. But the watchtower society? I just don't believe in it and I'm never going back to it.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Know 607/587 inside out.

    Know Ally Mom's Kiss approach that uses only WT materials to prove 587.

    If she says it is not important if it is wrong, know every reason why it is important.

    Never change the subject.

    Never let her change the subject.

    Do not be confrontational.

    Approach it by asking questions that she feels she must answer.

    607 is the sand upon which the WT stands or falls. It is the stake poised above the Watchtowers heart. Hammer it home. Gently. Gently. Gently. Gently.

    Good luck

    Chris

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Google Watchtower Propaganda. You will find a series of 4 articles. Know them well. If she has the 2000 Awake volume you can show her what they say from her own bookshelf. Only use it if she tries to end the discussion. One of the articles says that Educators encourage discussion, Propagandists discourage discussion. Discussion has been discouraged in the Sept OKM so it could rattle her chains. Cheers Chris

  • The Scotsman
    The Scotsman

    I am in a very similar situation, though still an elder.

    I have serious doubts regarding much the WT say but at the same time I do not want to hurt family members - my mother is a diehard Reg pioneer, father currently studying. My wife is in - but a bit weaker at the moment.

    What is the best way to proceed???? Please let me know when you work it out, I could do with some pointers myself.

    But for me - I cannot just continue with the current situation - things must change. When I am sitting at a meeting, out in ministry, even praying - I have a head full of doubts and distractions almost constantly now.

    The Sept KM has already been mentioned - you could use this as some leverage.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    You people may be right, but some ot this sounds like too much for Mom.

    I just don't believe in it and I'm never going back to it.

    "Never" sounds like a DA to a loyal JW. "I don't believe in it" does also. They are more
    accurate than, "I don't know." I haven't even said these things to the wife. Too strong.

    Know 607/587 inside out. ...

    If she says it is not important if it is wrong, know every reason why it is important.

    Never change the subject. ...

    Do not be confrontational.

    Approach it by asking questions that she feels she must answer.

    That seems more possible to do. I am just concerned that heavy doctrine
    will just cause her to shut down. She is still of the mindset that 1975 didn't happen
    because they don't know how many years it took to create Eve and then for her to
    sin. "The 7th day of 7000 years must have started before her sin."
    (Still valid WT teaching as far as the books go.) She knows this doctrine through and
    through and is totally programmed to uphold it. That was a major factor in my own
    questioning the WTS.

    Knowing how she thinks, that might be the best way to approach this, instead of the worst.
    Opinions?

    Google Watchtower Propaganda.

    I like that. I can be prepared to use the information if it gets to that.

    But for me - I cannot just continue with the current situation - things must change. When I am sitting at a meeting, out in ministry, even praying - I have a head full of doubts and distractions almost constantly now.

    Scotsman, thanks. You've been here longer than me, but are crawling away from WTS. I understand that.
    We all progress differently. I have faded like cheap blue jeans- going fast. But look how I have needed to
    post over 4000 times here while doing it. I don't have doubts, but I am stalled as far as fading in front of Mom.
    Your words quoted above could actually be used on Mom.

    Thanks, so far. BTTT for Monday opinions. I am not sure when I will have this talk. I think it will occur
    in October, but can't narrow it down more.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    OTWO -

    Could you pose this 'hypothetical' situation?

    "Mom, allow me to pose a 'what if' question to you. Suppose one of your children, or one of your good friends, made a conscientious investigation of the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses, found out some appalling discrepencies in doctrine, and even more ethical and moral issues. Further confirmation made it absolutely clear that they not only did not have the 'truth', but actually had lied to the Jw's over and over again. This serious soul could not go on with believing what they knew by now to be false. What would you do if the person then just quietly left, not attacking the religion, but just walked away peacefully? "

    Likely the answer would be moderate at this point. Then the clincher.

    "Well that is not the end of it. After leaving without causing a single ripple, the elders would not have that and came after him and forced him to Disassociate himself or be Disfellowshipped as an apostate, even though he was doing nothing wrong but investigating his beliefs as encouraged by the Watchtower over and over again. Would you follow the party lead if that happens? Would you shun him for using his mind and leaving quietly? Or would you recognise the right to conscientiously believe what he finds as true? "

    This might give you a barometer of her opines on the matter. It would further clue her where you are and that she is a key element to your next move. That could be good or bad depending on how you want or expect her to react to the suggestion.

    Either way, she 'knows' where you stand without knowing it as fact that can be used against you.

    Jeff

  • REBORNAGAIN
    REBORNAGAIN

    I have learned to go with my inner feelings, regardless of the consequences. Otherwise you end up regretting it in the long run. Not doing what you feel is right, and doing ONLY what others dictate to you will only result in you continuing to have an inner fight, inner dissatisfaction and it will eat at you forever until you do what YOU feel is right. Listen to your instincts. I've learned they are RIGHT.

    LINDA

  • V1710
    V1710

    ask mom how she feels about you leaving jw's. she still might be in denial about you not being a jw. kindly remind her of where your at. i don't think i would get into anything too deep with doctrine unless she asks. it might overwhelm her. best wishes

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk
    Mom, I love you and always will. But the watchtower society? I just don't believe in it and I'm never going back to it.

    Amen, Hortensia.

    My parents know exactly where I stand.

    The relationship will never be the same, as they are broken-hearted that I've "turned my back on Jehovah".

    But they don't shun me.

    It would appear that they spoke to a CO about the situation, and he suggested they not shun me as well.

    I really don't get that, but I'm not complaining.

    You're in an unenviable situation, OTWO, but it seems your mother may be capable of accepting your position.

    In some ways she already has.

    In my opinion, protracted debates about doctrine and failed prophecy would be pointless.

    Good luck.

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