I’m confused about the Trinity, and who believes it – Help please

by WingCommander 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  WingCommander

  Just to recap, I’ve had a nice Baptist Pastor stopping by my house about once a month for the past 8 months.A very kind soul, we always have the most interesting discussions.Him learning about how I was raised as a JW and their belief system, and I learning about his being “Born Again,” the Trinity, heaven, views on Armageddon, etc. It has all been very interesting, me being raised a JW and now hearing what another denomination believes, especially about the 144,000 and why they feel it isn't a literal number. Also, I am on his regular "Field Ministry,", and this is shocking to me as I was always taught the other religions don't go door to door like us, with the exception of Mormons - LDS.

  Anyway, he made the comment to me that very view Christian denominations DID NOT believe in the Trinity.He stated that really only small handful of denominations such as JW’s, Mormons, and a few other “Cultic” types don’t accept the Trinity.This was shocking to me, because asJW I always believed most everyone outside of Catholicism and Lutheranism believed as JW did, that Jesus was God’s son, and a totally separate created being.

  My question is, is his statement true, or slanted?Do Amish believe in the Trinity?Methodists?All “Born-Agains?”

  He also made the statement that nowhere in the Bible does it talk about Jesus being a created being.

  To me, being raised a JW, the Trinity is a very hard concept to comprehend.Let me explain myself a little further.A Catholic once used the illustration of the Irish shamrock to show how the Trinity worked, each leaf of the clover being part of the Trinity – The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit – 3 separate entities, but being connected to make up the Trinity, or Shamrock.This illustration makes sense to me asa JW, as I could easily see Jesus being somehow CONNECT to YHWH God, but not BEING Him.Also, every Trinitarian I’ve ever met claims that they don’t believe Jesus is God, but part of or a form of, God.

  The only scriptural basis I can find that would support the Trinity, is when Jesus made the statement that he was, “The Alpha and the Omega.”This is very striking to me, because if you recall, YHWH made this same statement via the burning bush to Moses.He said, “before Abraham, I am.The Alpha and the Omega.” – something along those lines.

  The Trinity is a very hard concept for me, and I don’t know if I can ever accept it.The Pastor that visits me has no problem calling The Father “Jehovah, or Yehwah,”, but does state that Jesus is God, but NOT the Father.Really confusing for me.

  Can someone please help me out here on these issues?

  Thanks,

  Wing Commander
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  yknot

  It is true that most other "Christian" religions profess Trinity. That said most cannot explain it and find it to be just one of those "mysteries" of God. (google Trinity or Godhead)

  When it was finally explained to me it was described that I could be an Aunt, Daughter, Grandmother, Sister, Mother, and Wife without being 6 different beings. Of course the Pastor couldn't explain how I could possible by my own mother and daughter at the same time.

  I suggest you do some research on the debates of the decree. The decision to pursue Trinity was by vote.

  I also suggest you read many different translations of the Bible, and Interlinears (avoid Westcott-Hort due to the fact that they claim "medium" abilities. (the WTBS has used them as referrence as well as Gerber)

  I personally still reject Trinity. The Bible says Jesus was "begotten" hence Jah begat him. Consider reading Col 1:15-20 (ignore any brackets with the word OTHER in the NWT) by means of him (Jesus) all things were created. I am sure you remember Jesus is the Masterworker. So this will explain the Alpha and Omega too. It can help us to appreciate why he was willing to be the sacrifice, not only because of his love for his father but also because of his shared love for us. We are made in their image (Jah and Jesus)!

  Also consider this: The Vatican now is down playing HELL, saying it is not a fiery inferno but the state of being away from God. There are starting to be doctorial shifts among Christendom, Trinity may be soon changing too (the SB will be one of the last to change)

  The where do we go? What other "Christian" religions reject Trinity, has been the reason most stay JWs. The only other monothesis' are Judiasm and Islam. Interestingly there are still a handful of Russell's Bible Students you can google.

  Finally: Sir Isaac Newton did not believe in Trinity but due to fear of "disfellowshiping" he did not profess it until postmortem via his last book.
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  mouthy

  AS an ex JW the Trinity was hard for me to accept. Then a lovely lady said to me one day.."Well the Father Son,& Holy Spirit was in Genesis In the beginning & GOD said>>> LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE" so we were made in THEIR IMAGE (3 in one) The SOUL> Father... Body > Jesus! & Holy Spirit__
  I myself have Body, Soul, & Spirit ... Mine dont always work together as theirs do. Because Of my sin.
  But when I was Born Again( Oct 20th 1987) I began to see that it is true NOWHERE in scripture is Jesus created. in Fact Col 1:13-20 Tells Us Jesus created all. ( Well it doesnt say that in their bible because they put brackets round OTHER to prove their beliefs.
  I also believe that the HOLY SPIRIT began to teach me.... Because think for me. became MUCH clearer....And it does tell us the HOLY SPIRIT will teach us all... Of course I had to ask HIM to Guide ,lead & direct me... I believe THEY are all doing that. Father, Son, & Holy Spirit....
  You asked my OPINION I answered what I believe....

  Tell that Pastor ,,,,,their is a SISTER out here who appreciates his going to look for the lost sheep....
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  the dreamer dreaming

  The trinity to me is one of the most obviously bogus doctrines every invented by the mind of arrogant men... but it does give christianity milage in that it makes god totally in comprehensible and that is a good thing to the masses who dont want the real god to be too easy to understand. the JW god is literally a very angry man made large. While that matches the bible, it does not make for a realistic godlike being.
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  Gopher

  I think Unitarians are among the few who are not Trinitarians.

  The Trinity is a mystery meant to confuse and dazzle people into thinking that religious leaders have special knowledge. Jehovah is a mystery meant to scare people into obedience.

  Being an atheist, I believe God is either mythical or so far removed he doesn't give a rat's petootie about earth and its problems. All this fussing over the exact definition of his nature is a lot of hand-wringing, but that's just my two cents.
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  Vernon Williams

  Wing,

  The Trinity is a very complex topic. You are wise to note the influence of the false teaching of the WT in regard to reasoning on this: we come from a background that is filled with historical re-writes and half truths.

  I want to recommend a book, however, I loaned it to a young pastor. It is not about the Trinity, however, it deals in depth with the "Arian contraversy." I will get that to you.

  Meanwhile, I would encourage you to do some research on the Eastern Orthodox perspective of the Trinity.

  Also, as the Trinity is NEVER mentioned in congregations that I have attended, please, please do NOT let this doctrine hold you back from all the positive things that come about by association with "believers."

  I will post the name of the book, later.

  PM if you want....

  V
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  Vernon Williams

  Wing,

  Here is an example of Orthodox writing:

  http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b02.en.orthodox_psychotherapy.03.htm#so1

  It is not about the Trinity....the article is on the Soul....I have not read it all, however, what I have read is very interesting: hope you have more free time than I do.

  Vernon Williams

  Monett, Mo.
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  Vernon Williams

  yknot,

  Did you mean "hell" or "limbo?"

  Limbo was just re-visited by the Vatican with some interesting conclusions.....

  V
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  Vernon Williams

  Gopher:

  The "oneness" Pentacostals reject the Trinity, however, it is easy to see that "oneness" (Modalism) is a TOTAL heresy.....at least the Trinity makes some sense...Oneness is pure fantasy...

  V
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  greendawn

  True most Christian religions believe in the Trinity and very few marginal groups believe otherwise. I am a non trinitarian but I can see why they all belive in it, it's their way of not being accused as believing in two Gods since apart from the Father the Son is also described as being Divine.
  
  The Apostle Paul clearly thought the Son is subordinate to the Father. The Trinitarians themselves can't understand their doctrine how three persons can be separate yet one at the same time.