I’m confused about the Trinity, and who believes it – Help please

by WingCommander 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Here is one of the better explanations I've seen on approaching the doctrine from a JW viewpoint. I really recommend it:

    http://www.biblicalanswers.net/docs/ev04287_ets2004.pdf


    Here is where he tackles some deeper questions:
    http://www.biblicalanswers.net/trinity.html


    Overall, I really like this summary that Leolaia posted once on why there is a Trinity doctrine:

    "The reason of why trinitarian thinking exists in Christianity is simple: it is a compromise between two otherwise conflicting positions, strict monotheism inherited from Judaism and early Christian devotion to Jesus Christ (cf. Hurtado's description of binitarianism), which in some forms ascribed deity to Christ. If one accepts that Jesus is God, one would either have to give up monotheism (i.e. endorse a form of ditheism), accept the normative Jewish concept of God and regard Jesus alone as God (i.e. embrace a form of modalism), or develop a way to treat Jesus and the Father as somehow comprising a single God, maintaining monotheism by admitting distinction between the two without dividing them up into separate gods. Mainstream orthodox Christianity opted the latter as the best solution and set about the difficult task of figuring out the terminology and conceptual framework for this position. Arianism solved the conundrum by denying that Jesus is God in the first place. This made for a simpler explanation though it was inadequate from the point of view of respecting NT texts that express early Christian devotion to Jesus. All these theologies, of course, harmonize disparate NT texts that do not represent a single point of view.

    And when you add the Holy Spirit into the mix, the whole matter becomes even more complex. Despite the conceptual difficulty of the Nicene Trinity, there is an attractive elegance and harmony in the doctrine missing from the early economical trinity of some second-century apologists, tho the latter is much closer to some NT concepts as later trinitarian thinking."


    I heard that Larry Hurtado's book, Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity is an excellent study on how the earliest Christians viewed Christ:

    http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Jesus-Christ-Devotion-Christianity/dp/0802831672/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4746575-6453533?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191613682&sr=8-1

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    To answer your question directly:

    The Son is subject to the Father and distinct from the Father. As is the Holy Spirit.

    The question then becomes, can two or more distinct persons be considered "one" (as in "one God")?

    See Mark 10:6-8--"they are no longer two"
    Rev 22:17

    How about the thought that no one can serve two lords (Mat 6:24--word used is kurios)? Yet the Father and the Son are each referred to as Lord? Doesn't this mean that for all intents and purposes, the "lord" you serve is inclusive of both the Father and Son, as they are perfectly unified in will?

    I'm sure I could have expressed that more eloquently, but I'm in a hurry...

  • blueviceroy
    blueviceroy

    You are confused as you are meant to be confused by the persons who conncocted your religion intended you to be . If a religion were easily understood everyonr would be a believer and not just the select few ,,,,, get it? WAKE UP RELIGION IS A SCAM ,GOD IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE ALL THE TIME WITHOUT LIMITS OR RESTRICTIONS (some blackout dates may be applicable in FL ,WY ,and WA check your local agent for listings), If you are confused it is from the works of man not from the works of God a child can understand the God concept and have no trouble

  • barry
    barry

    Many of the millerites didnt beleive the trinity doctrine because many had come from the christian connection a non trinitiarian group. As a result the SDA still have many in there church who dont beleive the trinity. Of course the official position in the SDAs is the doctrine of the trinity.

    The JWs also had connection with the millerites and the second adventists which influenced there position against the doctrine.

    In practice christians worship Jesus and the holy spirit and Jehovah without thinking of the workings of the trinity doctrine .

  • yknot
    yknot

    Thank you FRJPRICE for your clarification. My cousins are Catholic and it is being taught as I quoted above in their parish.

  • the dreamer dreaming
    the dreamer dreaming

    even for the off the docks christians... the trinity is one of those things you have to SAY you believe, but really nothing more. most of them will say-- the trinity is true...but in practice they talk like any JW assigning the FATHER sole godship and Jesus a subordinate position. the holy spirit is sometimes spoken of as a person and sometimes as a thing... Just like non-trinitarians do. it really boils down to a silly debate like those who follow the holy sandal vs those who follow the holy gord [see life of brian].

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Biblical Unitarians do not believe in the Trinity.

    http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    My question is, is his statement true, or slanted? - true

    Do Amish believe in the Trinity? - yes http://www.religioustolerance.org/amish3.htm http://house-church.net/beliefs.htm

    Methodists? - yes http://www.fmc-canada.org/who/articles-God.html

    All "Born-Agains?" - yes http://www.evangelicalfellowship.ca/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=265&srcid=184

    I can't say I am fully comfortable with the trinity doctrine but I find the alternative - that Jesus is not fully God - as unsupportable. If Jesus is not God in the flesh - then his entire message - ministry, miracles, are a pale shadow of meaning.

    For the few christian groups who do not support the trinity, I know of only two, the Christadelphians and Bible Students. The Bible Students, of course, have the same roots as the WTS. The World Wide Church of God rejected the trinity for many of the same reasons that Russell did, but in recent years the church has gone orthodox.

  • blondie
    blondie

    [edit] Groups

    * Independent affiliates of the Unitarian Universalist Association

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    One time my wife was out in service and someone gave her a tract on the Trinity. I thought, "cool, she actually picked it up and maybe she'll read it." But I went over it and found it was written very WTS-style and argued AGAINST the Trinity...and FOR Modalism i.e., that the Father IS the SON.

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