by AlphaOmega 11 Replies latest watchtower bible
Does anyone know what the typical "Christendom" view of "This Generation" is ?
I was just mulling over the "new" JW view that it refers to the anointed, but don't see how that fits, as at the time that Jesus said this to the disciples, the anointing hadn't aken place - they were merely "anointed in waiting".
Christendom is pretty broad and varied. I have only asked two people in "Christendom" about this. One was a Jesuit priest for many years. Basically, his take
was that Jesus was referring to his contemporaries who would not pass away before Jerusalem was destroyed. That was his take. He is no longer a priest. He
had some problems with his belief system, that oddly enough, I had with mine.
AlphaOmega,
Biblically the answer is simple. It is the generation when Christ comes and the resurrection takes place. In Matthew we have: 34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Then we see some examples.
And there are other indicators or exactly what is meant such as: 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
In Daniel chapter 12 we have some numbers that indicate that such events will be preceded by just a few years. So we are not talking about a lot of time after we see such things as described in the texts taking place. This is why the Jerusalem of 70CE which is so highly touted as being involved in all this somehow has no place in this prophecy. Christ did not come then and it simply sounds like that Jerusalem was involved. But until we recognize this fact then what was really meant will remain hidden from view for them.
Joseph
Thanks for the responses so far.
What you say makes sense Joseph, but If the generation were being spoken of was to be a future generation, I would have thought that the phrase would have been "THAT generation will by no means pass away", rather than THIS generation.
It's just a curious phrase...
Any further thoughts ?
AO
It's the eternal NOW - the whole of history met and was judged at one pinpoint - the foot of the cross, and now lives in the light of the resurrection. Hence THIS generation (ie the whole of mankind) was there at the time, it did not 'pass away' until the glory of Christ returned and was seen at the resurrection.
Is that deep enough? Discuss
(Erm that's not exactly what I got taught in church or theological college! Just my own musings)
Ms Emo... that does make sense...
"The Eternal Moment of Now"... "The All"
I can handle that idea. How could I forget that we are "inside" time ?
Reminds me of the parable of the Rock from Conversations With God...
I read something a few years ago... it seems appropriate to include it here
(with a bit of editing by myself):
Once there was a Rock, filled with countless atoms, protons, neutrons, and subatomic particles of matter. These particles were racing around continually, in a pattern, each particle going from "here" to "there," and taking "time" to do so, yet going so fast that the Rock itself seemed not to move at all. It just "was". There it lay, drinking in the sun, soaking up the rain, and not moving at all.
"What is this, inside of me, that is moving?" the Rock asked.
"It is You," said a Voice from Afar."Me?" replied the Rock. "That is impossible. I am not moving at all. Anyone can see that."
"Yes from a distance," the Voice agreed. "From way over here you do look as if you are solid, still, and not moving. But when I come closer - when I look very closely at what is actually happening - I see that everything that comprises "What You Are" is moving. It is moving at incredible speed through "time" and "space "in a particular pattern which creates "You" as the thing called "Rock". And so, you are like magic! You are moving and not moving at the same time."
"But," asked the Rock," which then, is the illusion? The oneness, the stillness, of the Rock, or the separateness and the movement of its parts?"
To which the Voice replied, "Which, then, is the illusion? The oneness, the stillness, of God? Or the separateness and movements of its parts?"
... Life is a series of tiny, incredibly rapid movements. These movements do not affect the immobility and the "Being ness" of "Everything That Is". Yet, just as with the atoms of the rock, it is the movement which is creating the stillness, right before your eyes.From this distance, there is no separateness. There cannot be, for "All That Is" is "All There Is", and there is nothing else.
From the limited perspective with which you view "All That Is", you see yourself as separate and apart, not one unmovable being, but many, many beings, constantly in motion.
Both observations are accurate. Both realities are "real."
Spot on AO!
"The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day..." (Joshua 10:13)
"'Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there," and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you'" (Matthew 17:21)
Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11: 24-26)
Nothing is impossible in the eternal NOW, even if we don't witness it happening in our limited timeframe...
"THAT generation will by no means pass away", rather than THIS generation.
AlphaOmega,
Since we should be visualizing this prophecy and know that the ones targeted will actually be involved in it then this generation is just fine. It would be THAT generation for everyone except the ones actually involved. And the surrounding texts and information confirm this very well. Paul actually enlarged on it in his writings confirming this for us. But theologians and the WT in particular have distorted this reality so much that it is not discernible and its meaning is lost because of their distortions. The text is clear. The interpretations are not. I find this amazing since the text and supporting material is so clear. You should be able to see this for yourself.
Joseph
Joseph,
Thanks.
This particular passage has always sort of been a bit fuzzy to me.
I can see that "THIS generation" mentioned in the context of a discussion about a future time is correct usage of the term.
Whilst the message of the Bible is for ALL time, I feel that the context is for the time that it was written. It feels slightly unsettling to think that there are things in it that were soley meant for a particular future generation.
I have read this passage many times in context, but I will read it again with this in mind and post my thoughts about it here.
AO (wow... I nearly typed my real name here !!)
I guess there's a tacit line of demarcation running through "Christendom" (a word which I feel is scarcely used out of the JW world nowadays, btw) and through almost every Christian denomination, depending on whether people accept the notion of failed prophecy or not.
For those who accept it, the meaning is plain enough. He genea autè (cf. also Matthew 11:16; 12:41f; 23:36; Mark 8:12; Luke 7:31 11:29ff,50f; 17:25) refers to Jesus' Jewish contemporaries. And the prophecy in Mark 13:30// clearly failed.
For those who reject it, the interpretive possibilities are virtually infinite. One classic trick has been to downplay the main temporal semantic component of genea, and to press forward its secondary ethnic connotation instead. "This generation" thus became roughly synonym with "the Jews," which was all too understandable in the historical context of Christian anti-semitism. The "adventist" idea of some future generation (cf. JosephMalik), or the philosophical concept of timeless generation (cf. SadEmo) are certainly less harmful if not better warranted philologically.
