Is there a God? The musings of madman as he walks through the woods (page 3)

llbh

Hi John Doe & Dawg

I graduated in Law 10yrs ago if can help will try though I am in the UK and we have loads of differences. Stay the course it is fascinating

llbh - get it?!

As you pointed out, scientists haven't yet created living organisms from inanimate matter. Evolution makes sense, but abiogenesis has yet to be scientifically proven. Could life as we know it on planet Earth have been the product of a non-terrestrial intelligence? For the sake of argument, let's assume that to be the case.

Assume that life had a "designer". What makes you think that it is/was a "god"? What makes you think that it still exists? Why assume that it knows sentient life evolved from the first living thing? Why assume that it even cares? Could it not be possible that the "designer" of life on the Earth has long since died itself? Why should the superstitions and mythologies (Bible, Koran, etc.) of human history be worthy of any serious consideration? In other words, how do you make the mental leap from mere "designer" to Almighty, Omniscient, Everpresent God? Why do you think that life has to somehow be just and fair? Why do you believe that this "designer" would help you while permitting someone else to suffer due to mere chance?

These are things I ask myself when considering the origin of life and the concept of a Divine Creator. So, while science has yet to provide "The Answer", I can safely say that religion hasn't either. Anyone who tells you different is just trying to rip you off.

Dave

dawg

Thanks LLBH... I'll keep that in mind

Primate Dave... I'm with you man... I guess I was having a moment of weakness today

VoidEater

I do believe God exists. However, what I think God is supposed "to do", what functions he/she/it serves in my life, may be very different than what you expect from God. Over time, one might tease out of the stories and teachings and guesses and superstitions of what, exactly, the "powers" that God has are, and from that perhaps decide what roles he/she/it is supposed to fill.

In my experience, God is utterly alien - we think, we rationalize, we see cause and effect, we create, we destroy, and then most of us try to make God the source of all these things. I'm not so sure that God thinks, or experiences emotions as we do, or plays any part in Earthly mundane life.

To want to believe in God begs the question for me - what, then, is God supposed to do for us? Did he create the universe, does he teach us how to live, does he smite the evildoer - what exactly is expected of Him? And why would he care to do any of these things?

I believe Joe Jackson comments in a song something like, "The Force is a pretty big thing, but what makes you think it gives a s*** about you?" I'm not sure there's value in applying scorn to God, either, but something of that does coincide with my own beliefs. My experiential reality informs me that God does indeed exist; my everyday life informs me that he simply is not involved in my external world. There is something larger than me that I feel connected to, and my psyche applies the label "God" to that.

In the end, trying to debate the existance of God is moot. You either decide to believe in God, or not, and accept all the psychological baggage that comes with either choice. But if you're expecting to see miracles in the everyday world - well, those come from us humans doing good things.

llbh

Bye Dawg,

Pm anytime I am out of here it is 00:20am UK Bedtime good luck!!

llbh

PrimateDave

Nice post VoidEater. Welcome to the forum!

Dave

Carl_Hernz

Actaully, Dawg, everything about the Christian God is set on its side that throws logic out and makes it difficult to comprehend the whys and whats?

Not to add fire to your perplexity, but does it make sense that the Savior that God sends to the world is born to a poor family of a hated race in an obscure country, stays poor all his life, never marries, gets horribly tortured and eventually executed as a common criminal? On top of that, this Savior demands that his followers follow in his footsteps.

So where is the logic in that? The answer is there isn’t any. According to Christian theology there isn’t supposed to be, not on the surface anyway. And no, the answer doesn’t lie with “the talking snake” story either.

The Septuagint used by the first century Christians contained a book called The Wisdom of Solomon (considered inspired by some churches but not JWs). In it the writer described a man who lived a blameless life and was loved by God but died suddenly in the prime of his life. “The people saw this and did not understand it,” the writer explained, since the now dead man was well-known for living a saintly life.

The narrative continues by stating that something unseen to others was going on with this man, something the people around him never considered. “He was made perfect in his few short years, as though he had lived a long life,” or in other words he had reach a state of exemplary virtue. “He was taken away [in death] so evil could not undermine his judgment nor deceit seduce his soul…Since his soul please the Lord, the Lord quickly took him from the wickedness around him.”

This is a simplistic means employed by the writer to give not an all-encompassing answer to explain why every innocent suffers and dies despite prayers to the contrary, but to offer a comprehensive explanation that humans don’t have all the facts regarding the way history unfolds. What may look bad on the surface, like death in one’s prime, may in truth be something beneficial to the individuals involved. The writer of Wisdom concludes by saying that this early death, unknown to those puzzled by what they saw, was in God’s wisdom “grace and mercy” for this individual.—Widsom 4:7-15.

It isn’t weakness or a lack of faith on your part to question God’s providential hand in things when you witness undue suffering. It is often brought on by emotion moved by our strong inert sense of justice. We don’t have all the answers to see the other side of the coin, and so we are left disturbed. Naturally we might question what God is doing like Abraham did when God said he was planning to bring destruction upon Sodom and Gomorrah.

Coming to the end of my long-winded pontificating, what I am saying is you are alright and responding to things as you should. It is part of the growth in learning something about yourself and God. Through things like this we recognize our limitations and our need to lean on the wisdom of our Creator. We also learn to trust in him and his providence. Trust is not a scholastic exercise, it is of the heart. That is why the story of a dead Messiah hanging on a tree defies logic. It is really a story of life, not death. But we discern that not because it is logical, but because it is a story of love, something meant to be understood with the heart and no so much with the mind.

helncon

Now to the point, if there is a God, why the hell would he allow something like this? Why would he listen to my prayers and let babies be born in such ways? I'm asking what ideas you here on the board have because I really do want to believe in God, but damn man, look at stuff like that and see the randomness in it! He don't do squat for man.... What do you guys think and please leave out the myth about the talking snake.....

Hi Dawg,

You know i often have wondered why would a kind god let be created humasn with such deformities and illnesses. Not only mental but also physical and some that you cannot even see

We ware taught that jeh is a loving god but how can he let this happen.

We are also told its from that we came from perfect but now that we are so far from perfection that these things happen.

For me i don't believe that there is a god.

I know that we were created but by whom is another matter.

We have eveolved over the many thousends of years and we can see this change but the technology that has happened and buy what human kind has accomplished.

It beats me if there is a god why he has let things go on for so long and if the bible is true will this system come to an end and who will be saved.???????

Another thing that also frustrates me is that it is written in the great big book the bible( for those who believe me im not sure) about homosexuality but yet it occurs with our humanity. Just a though

Helen

Satanus

Instead of looking for a higher power, look for a lower power. This sounds funny, but it goes along w the evolutionary principle. There is a force or something pushing up and out through creation. It's not that smart, which can be shown by the creation. Anyhow, meditation can get you in that direction. The next time you are walking in the forest like a madman, find a nice tree to sit under. Relax, and focus on your breathing for 15 minutes. w eyes closed, feel the tree and the rest of the forest.

S

Brother Apostate

This life is just a very small portion of the real life that we may possibly inherit upon our fleshly death (only those God chooses go on to live the next life, the Bible spells out how).

During the fleshly lifetime, we each posses different burdens and blessings. We learn more from our persecutions, handicaps, disabilities than we do from our ego massaging, feats of greatness, and overall abilities. However, we do learn from all aspects of life.

In the next life, those of us who pass into the spiritual realm take with us "those treasures stored in heaven", that is, the things that we have developed, that have molded our outlook, our loving acts that have taught us mercy, compassion, forgiveness, empathy, charity, patience, joy, peace, and the like.

Who are we to say that the "retarded", the physically handicapped, etc, are not more blessed than the "intelligent", the athlete, etc, when it comes down to what we learned from the whole experience of life, in the end?

Yes, there is a God, and those who come through the tests of the fleshly life, storing up treasures in heaven, will take with them all those treasures for eternity.

The truly retarded are those who live only for this brief fleshly life, forsaking their future for the wholesale pursuit of the desires of the flesh, which are so temporary in nature.

BA- Storing up treasures in heaven.

Is there a God? The musings of madman as he walks through the woods

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