Would Witnesses Kill If Ordered? Probably! (page 3)

B_Deserter

The problem is the New Light doctrine that basically allows them to interpret any scripture they want in any way they want. I remember asking myself and other witnesses: if the society asked you to do something that was clearly against scripture, would you do it? I got a lot of "of course not"-s and "the society would NEVER say that!"-s but what if the society had published an article that "explained" why the scripture doesn't mean what it says. In this example regarding murder, what if the society were to order the murder of Ray Franz or another apostate. What if they used examples in the OT of Joshua slaughtering the nations of Canaan to justify the killing of people today because it is "under Jehovah's order." That is the main problem I have with the religion. The Governing Body can publish an article that interprets scripure how they choose, and the rank and file HAVE to accept it. Now if they order something utterly ridiculous like "kill 100 worldly people every week," they'd lose people in droves, but there are too many that are FANATICAL enough to do it, especially with all the talk about following "Jehovah's" direction no matter how much you disagree.

B_Deserter

"We were taught that we would just be observers while Jesus and the angels would do it, so that idea is over the top."

BUT!!! Thanks to "new light," it can change. It doesn't matter how long the belief was held, if the GB says it's out, it's out. I think the "observer" doctrine could DEFINITELY change, but it's not likely to. I think most JWs would have a moral sense enough to realize when enough is enough, so they'd lose a lot of members, which they DONT want. Plus, JWs going out and killing people will draw a lot of attention to Brooklyn and the government would come down hard and erradicate the majority of Watchtower activities, which, funnily enough, is almost EXACTLY what they teach is going to happen, they only leave out the part WHY JWs get the crack-down.

jaguarbass

God protect me from your worshipers.

BabaYaga

Probably? As you have pointed out, they have, they will, they do it all the time.

Cheers for an excellent thread.
Baba.

proplog2

You thread title is misleading. It implies that Witnesses in general would "Kill if Ordered". Later you qualify that by saying "some witnesses".

But, by saying that you aren't making an extraordinary case. Some of any religion will "Kill if ordered".

There are "executioners" in the USA and other "backward countries" that will execute people if ordered. Capital punishment is killing on orders. War is killing on orders. Police kill on orders to shoot to kill.

None of this is extraordinary.

It is unlikely that JW's would make hits as a matter of broad policy. They DO ask people to put themselves in harms way.

Bonnie_Clyde

Remember the man of Israel who went through the Israelite camp with a Midianite woman? "When Phinehas..the priest caught sight of it, he at once got up...and took a lance in his hand. Then he went after the man of Israel into the vaulted tent and pierced both of then through, the man of Israel and the woman through her genital parts." (Numbers 25:6-8) I think there are some witnesses who have enough "righteous indignation" to do that today if they could get away with it and not be prosecuted legally. I believe I have a few relatives who could do it.

What if our society became less than civilized and law and order broke down? I often think of the Hemingway book I read many years ago, "For Whom the Bell Tolls." Even the decent people of the city (Spain) were whipped into a frenzy and against their basic instincts ended up throwing several of the business owners of the town off the balcony to their death. Fiction? I don't know. But I can see how something like that could happen.

metatron

I sometimes wonder if people bother to read what's posted.

Not extraordinary?

Dying for the blood issue is extraordinary

Dying in the Malawi persecution was extraordinary

Betraying other brothers instead of playing ignorant ( or making stuff up as prisoners do) is extraordinary.

Do I need to go on? If people are deceived ( gasp!) by my title, I then fault them for being too lazy

to read the text........ and think.

metatron

eclipse

Hard hitting post, metatron.

I agree with everything you wrote, that if there was ''new light'' and it was published and supported by ''scripture'', they would follow.

Perhaps even by threat, that if they did not kill, then they will be killed themselves...

A mob mentality is a powerful force....it's been proven in studies,

that you can make a group of people agree that 2+2=5 just by peer pressure alone.

I could see it happening very easily...they are THAT mind controlled and brainwashed.

Jourles

Dying for the blood issue is extraordinary
Dying in the Malawi persecution was extraordinary
Betraying other brothers instead of playing ignorant ( or making stuff up as prisoners do) is extraordinary

The main difference between these scenarios and a jw actually taking another life by violence is just that. The individual jw is using his wt-trained conscience to passively allow the above scenarios to happen. To physically and violently KILL another human such as an apostate or some other type of unbeliever is a whole other matter. 99.9% of the jw community probably would not carry out such an order. Letting themselves or their children die due to the blood doctrine or any other doctrine is based on martyrdom. Contrast this with a parent killing their child because the child became apostate and da'd themselves. This is plain ol' murder. The WTS could never allow this to happen or even condone such an act. There are too many whistleblowers in the org(just look at the faders on this site). Such acts would tarnish their most holy name and reputation. And we all know how much they value their reputation above all else...

Tyrone van leyen

You know, I was listening to the Jonestown tapes that were made prior to the Kool aide incident. Jim Jones throughout the whole thing, even with people questioning him, kept a very calm demeanour throughout and explained why everybody should die, children included.

There were intelligent people in there who put up arguments to the contrary and some of these folks left but the majority stayed. Jim Jones was a man who was actually trying to sell people murder of their children and their own deaths rather than life and he did it with mostly willing people. Once you have engrained a structure of thought in someone and leave them with no alternative force is not as necesarry as one might think.

Death is sold to the witnesses, through:

1. Refusal of blood transfusion

2. Sucides, resulting from abandonment and disillusionment and shunning

3. Allowing brothers such as in, Malawi or Nazi Germany to die for the bunk they beleive in.

4. Murder of the soul through killing independant thinking and opportunities beacuse the world is going to end.

5. Protection of pedophiles, and rapists.

6. Making witness folks run against the grain of society by precluding them from all social events and anyhting that might be conmsdiered normal.

It is not a stretch to imagine clever wording and use of scripture by their legal writing team to invoke a crisis and create the groundwork for actual murder. They don't really need to that right now though. There techniques they have mastered to cause mayhem are working quite well for them and is legal in every way.

Would Witnesses Kill If Ordered? Probably!

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