by Guest with Questions 22 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
This is truly horrendous!!! I am sickened and angered beyond belief.
And I want you to know that however primitive and barbaric you may have been led to believe Islam is, it does not teach nor condone such behaviour, not against children and not against adults, not against Muslims and not against non-Muslims, not against orphans and not against captives of war.
~Merry
Its not Islam that is at fault IMO.
Christianity once sent children on crusades and slaughtered innocent infidel children but today is more likely to sponsor child friendly charities i.e. teh religion is interpreted by the culture. Islam happens to find strength and dominate is some truly backward cultures. The key to cultural maturity is in education and critically who is excluded from it. When education came to the UK as a general right then the slavery of children down mines and in mills began to cease - a good christian nation stopped the slavery only when they gave education to all.
If the war on terror was really faught smart it would be done with free education and trade.
Merry,
And I want you to know that however primitive and barbaric you may have been led to believe Islam is...
Well, I start from an viewpoint that all religions that demand an allegiance, either physically or emotionally from its adherents are primitive and barbaric. I have no bias. ;)
Having been a victim of excessive religious thought and instruction for many years, it is not hard for me to see through the thin veneer of thought control that every religion brings to its adherents. When people realize that what they worship as the words of God are actually just another agenda-laden human viewpoint that relies on sociopathic organization for its life-blood, it is all the liberation that they need.
"Only connect the prose and passion and both will be exalted. Live in fragments no longer......"
HS
The footage shown is disturbing to say the least. But it doesn't surprize me, alot of horrific acts are perpetrated in the name of religion. Christianity, Islam and Judism, among others are all guilty of disgusting injustices and violations of human rights. It's heartbreaking to see that innocent children are being forced in the most hienous ways to follow Islam. The links on Islam and the rights of men to have sexual intercourse with children, I couldn't even click on that, some things I would rather be ignorant about I guess. But I do have to say, I find Islamic teaching regarding women and children particularly disturbing personally.
Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 215) Omar reported from the Holy Prophet who said, "No man shall be questioned for beating his wife."
In the very next Hadith a woman complained to Mohammed that her husband beat her while she prayed. Mohammed told her to change her time of prayer or pray shorter prayers so that her husband could get on with the joy of beating her. (Reported by Abu Sayeed al-Kodri, Attest by Abu Daud)
2.)Al Hadis, Vol. 4, p. 172, No. 34) Ali reported that the Apostle of Allah said, "There is in Paradise a market wherein there will be no buying or selling, but will consist of men and women. When a man desires a beauty, he will have intercourse with them."
3.)(Al-Hadis, Vol. 3, p. 137) Abu Sayeed al-Khodri reported that Mohammed was talking to a group of women when he said, ". I see the majority of you will go to Hell." The women asked why, to which Mohammed responded, "You often curse and are ungrateful to your companions." He then told them they had a basic defect in their nature, to which they responded, "How?" Mohammed answered, "Is not the attestation (knowledge and witness) of a women only worth half of a man's? And that is on account of her short intelligence."
This quote really brings out Mohammed's "shining" views on women. He automatically condemns the majority of them to hell. According to him a woman's intellectual capacity is only half that of a man and that is why two women are required as witnesses as compared to one man.
Based on what the Prophet Mohammed taught regarding women and their treatment in the Quaran, the only way you could possibly see it another way is by choosing to be the same as the JW's IMO, keeping the blinders on. Women in Islamic countries, and children are horribly mistreated, in many cases, so while some Islamic scholars may argue that some of the assertions made in the Quaran are not to be taken literally the problem is the vast numbers who do take it literally.
I don't doubt there are good people who are muslims who would never treat children or women badly. But the very book Islam calls holy blantantly shows disrespect for women and children. The Quaran does refer to non-believers as infidels and declares it is every muslim's duty to destroy said infidels. Now whether or not the muslim as in individual takes that literally or as a historical reference is up to them. But any book that encourages slaughter based on religious beliefs is not something I would ever call "holy" or want to follow. (That includes the bible, in my case.)
Kind of like some of Christianity right? All patriarchial religions teach submission of women and children, inferiority of women, to some degree or another. Could it be because MEN wrote these "holy" books? It saddens me immensely to see so many women buy into these belief systems. It saddens me even more to see these children suffer in the name of a 'god'. When will people wake up from this mass mental illness called religion and start to treat each other with true love, as brothers and sisters?
Doctors, who hold peoples lives in their hands are put under tremendous scrutiny, and rightly so. If they make mistakes, they end up in court with their nadgers in a jar. Religions who have similar authority over peoples emotional, and often physical lives are excluded such scrutiny. This is pure insanity.
I don't want to forget this statement. Thanks
I can't make myself watch the video, I take it from the posts it is very bad.
purps
It saddens me even more to see these children suffer in the name of a 'god'. When will people wake up from this mass mental illness called religion and start to treat each other with true love, as brothers and sisters?
The key to cultural maturity is in education and critically who is excluded from it.
Those were some very good points you presented, Qcumber! and education is something I very much support. Thank you for sharing your views on this. I find them alot more helpful than blanket condemnations that confuse the issues.
I know you weren't singling out Islam, Hillary-not-running-for-President.
In the interests of promoting the education of adults in regard to children in Islam, this was produced in 2005 by Al-Azhar University and UNICEF in Egypt--Children In Islam Their Care, Development and Protection. What I linked to is not the entire document which was written in Arabic, but an English summary.
And a quick note on Prisoners of War-- http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/politics/System/article05.shtml
In regard to women in Islam, sweetstuff, I will link to this article (for any who wish to question what websites with an anti-Islamic agenda proclaim)--Women's Position, Role, and Rights in Islam. Here is a brief quote:
In this paper I argue that the position of women in Islam in theory, that is, according to the Qur'an and Hadiths (tradition) of the Prophet, differs vastly from Islam in practice. It is not the Islamic ideologies that determine the position of women in the Islamic societies, it is rather the pre-Islamic patriarchal ideologies existing in a particular society, combined with the lack of education and ignorance, that construct the Muslim women's position.
I also wish to make clear that if a hadith (transmitted saying of the Prophet) goes against the Qur'an, it cannot be accepted as legitimate, and if one has a fairly good grasp of the whole body of the Qur'an and Sunnah (transmitted life and sayings of the Prophet) or at least their essential message, it is not that all that difficult to determine which beliefs and behaviours are Islamic and which are not (IMO).
Sadly, there are both Muslims and non-Muslims who seem to have a vested interested in seeing and portraying Islam as something it is not. I strive (make jihad) against both, first through making jihad against my own worst tendencies, and then through working to educate myself and encouraging others in like manner.
Whatever perspective we are coming from, I would like for all of us to take off our "blinders". Positive change and useful dialogue is not likely until then. But it's a process, and a very challenging one at that. I hope never to give up on it.
~Merry
When I posted this thread it was not as a condemnation against Islam. It was a condemnation against barbarians abusing innocent children. It wouldn't matter if they were Islamic or Christians, or any other religious or non-religious groups.
I’m outraged and deeply saddened, as I’m sure all are who saw the video. The link to the video I gave, I assume, was fairly tame compared to others that I wouldn’t even open to watch.
For people to say this is an act done solely by religious zealots or fanatics is incorrect. The problem isn't with faith, it's with the faithful, with the people. And it isn’t a problem with just the religious. Look at the atheistic/communist countries. If someone doesn’t want to be a hypocrite, then we need to look in our own backyards, at our own belief systems or lack-of belief systems.
I can understand somewhat if people are outraged by this and asking why God isn’t doing anything about it. But that would make humans more emphatic and more morally indignant than God and I don’t believe that to be true. What I don’t understand is, if someone doesn’t believe in God than how do you account for people doing this against another human being. You can’t blame God, because he doesn’t exist, so then religion doesn’t exist except in people's own minds, so you end up with people themselves solely responsible for these atrocities. Take away the religions and you will still have people brutalizing other people.
Since time began people have brutally murdered, tortured, and enslaved people. My feeling is, if evolution is true, then how come we haven’t evolved to the point of eradicating this evil or hateful gene, to becoming superior human beings, with greater intellect, with more compassion? We are still where we started. Or will it take another millions of years for us to mutate to become better humans?
I want to clarify, I’m not angry with anybody on this board that has differing views from mine. It’s the brutality of one human towards another I'm angry with. In a worldly, horizontal way I do believe that most people are, for the most part, decent human beings, who hurt each other, but who don’t brutalize others. But I do have to question their views on man’s evolution. The way I see it, if evolution is correct, (and not for one moment do I believe it to be true) then there is no hope for mankind.
Guest with Questions,
Your post is peppered throughout with logical fallacies, far too many to point out to you without gravely upsetting you sensibilities I fear.
HS
The way I see it, if evolution is correct, (and not for one moment do I believe it to be true) then there is no hope for mankind.
That would suggest that we as human beings have no capacity to change, that how we treat others is irrelevant because only God can change anything in this world. So, should we all basically say, not my fault, I am only human? I can't change the world, that kind of mentality really disturbs me, no offense A Guest, but to think that we can't improve ourselves without divine intervention is to say, we are helpless.
I don't think anyone on the thread, suggested all muslims are bad, or it's a muslim problem, in fact, many pointed out christianity has just as many fanatics. But to suggest religious belief has no role in the treatment of these kids or in the mentality of anyone who under the guise of belief inflicts harm onto another is to say that no harm has ever been caused by religion. I respect your opinion of course, but I wholeheartedly disagree that humans are doomed without God in the picture.
