Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'? (page 3)

Liberty

Just to be clear Jourles, I am quite aware that the USA is a socialist state and I am seeking to ween us from the communalism which permiates this society. Let me also be clear that communalism existed long before Karl Marx. Classic Christianity is riddled with communalistic ideas. Hence why so many ex-JWs and other Fundi-Christians are so comfortable with the nanny state regulating our freedoms and foisting their false charity work upon us.

SixofNine

Liberty, do you have any examples of societies that functioned as you believe societies should function? Or, if not, what is the closest example to a society getting-it-right, in your opinion (I'd also like to know the time period in which you think a particular society most got-it-right). Thanks.

eclipse

Loved the movie, makes me so glad that I don't live in the states. Before you egg or flame me,keep reading:

If the healthcare system was completely revamped and changed, I would appreciate the priviledge of living there.....

Liberty

Sure SixofNine,

First off, never be fooled by anybody telling you that they have the perfect society or form of government. There is no such thing, and the term Utopia describing a perfect society literally means "no place". Libertarianism does not promise a perfect society, only the best possible given human limitations.

The Enlightenment period is when economics was first studied scientifically and it is no acident that free market capitalism was developing as the power of the Catholic Church was being challenged in Western Europe. Because of religion, tradition, and archaic governmental systems, given their authority by religion (King/Queen rule and nobility), the rise of free market capitalism and the resulting push for better government, more freedom, and equality was greatly hampered. Britain was a bastian of capitalism and this pushed the government there to become more egalitarian and reform minded. As english settlers came to the New World these ideas followed along with them. The United States in the 19th century (1800s) was the culmination of the libertarian ideal (though libertarianism was not yet defined) of innovation and growth based upon the Enlightenment freedoms formalized in our Constitution and applied to government. This resulted in the fastest technological and economic growth in history.

The US had many hold overs from religious communalism holding back our growth and freedom but the great innovations and industrial revolution of the 19th century is the best example of what can be done when libertarian ideas are allowed to fluorish. Great wealth was produced and an historical trend was broken where once 90% of the population were subsistance farmers being exploited by 10% church/state ruling class was transformed into a system dominated by a new middle class.

SixofNine

I'm curious, Liberty, where could I find the data that backs up your statements above? I'll have to admit to great skepticism of an argument painting c19th America as any kind of ideal, no less a hay-day for a (seemingly invisible) middle class.

I think most people are familiar with the following terms:

Slave labor

Robber Barons

Gilded Age

I'm no expert on America in the 1800's, but the above terms are w/o question part-and-parcel of that era. To claim that a middle class thrived in an era that is so synonymous with those terms defies logic.

nvrgnbk

I wont touch it with a ten-foot pole.

My many warm and caring conservative friends have warned me that Michael Moore is the Antichrist.

So, no thanks!

katiekitten

communalism and nanny states have never provided any thing free to anyone and they never will. Slavery and false charity are the hallmarks of such systems and these lead to stagnation and poverty for all.

Wow, I never realised that by paying taxes to provide a system of health care that catered for everyone was so ...so ...wicked.

There was I just thinking that rather than paying an amount of money every month into a scheme that only ever paid for one person (yourself) and positively tried NOT to pay when you tried to claim, and that excluded hundreds of existing conditions and ailments, it would be better to pay an amount of money every month into a scheme that paid for anyone who needed to claim, and never refused payment for treatment and didnt exclude any existing conditions.

But there you are, how wrong can you be.

5go

I have done the research. The facts are clear. History is filled with communalistic cultures exploiting people and forcing them into poverty and technological stagnation.

I believe christianity started it. You know the thing Jesus said give all not some of your riches to the poor and follow the christ. The thing that most christian capitalist won't do themselves, but don't mind others doing mainly when it involves helping the ~~lazy no good blood sucking helpless~~ poor people.

Sorry but history is also filled with regimes that ignored the plight of the poor to only to fall to them and their new leaders.

Liberty

Hi katiekitten,

Certainly the US was not perfect, as I stated. Race based slavery, government corruption/favoritism, religious influence, and communalistic tradition all had a part in keeping the system from reaching its full potential. Just keep in mind however that, despite propaganda we are fed, capitalism did not invent slavery, exploitation, poverty and a number of other social ills blamed upon it. Communalism is the real source of the majority of social ills which its proponents want to blame on free market capitalism. If we study history it becomes clear that such ills all predate any periods of free market capitalism and are at their worse during periods which are firmly in the grips of a communalistic system.

I will freely admit I don't have all the data memorized to print out for you here. I read and study such things and grasp general ideas which I can remember and discuss. I know such data is available as I have seen it but can not immediantly provide it for you. If you are curious I strongly suggest you research it for yourself as I do not claim infalable knowledge. If I have time I may be able to put together some stats but I think most people would agree that Western countries that embraced capitalism are far better off than they were in 1200 AD and no stats are needed to see this.

restrangled

The drug companies, hospitals, and insurance companies are all in cahoots in the US.....

Here is how it works... If you have insurance the company you are with has bargained with the above to give reduced rates if you get ill.

They then decide if they will cover you, dependening on the idiot at the other end of your insurance company.

If you don't have insurance you will pay full price for everything, such as $2.00 for one asprin, this should give you an idea of the greed.

I have more details, and its too sickening to go into...... but the entire works is a total scam.

r.

Anyone watched the film 'Sicko'?

Share this