Why have things changed? (page 3)

beksbks

I don't know how you guys can say that we don't see miracles today

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/WolfFiles/story?id=307227&page=1

AuldSoul

Jesus was sent to the earth (trans-dimensional travel/ not REALLY virgin birth)
to change people from a nationalistic orientation
to a planetary/universal paradigm.
The capital of the earth is the New Jerusalem - the Jerusalem above.

The objective was never to convince the whole world
by means of miracles (cognitive bribes). Humans have to
experience the contrast between destructive nationalism
and the conserving power of cooperation.

A long-range objective as humanity is groomed into an acceptable segment of that larger society?

All Bible miracles, every single one recorded, are theoretically possible given the proper technology. Most of the feats attributed to the ancient Gods of Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Americas are similarly possible given the appropriate technology. The descriptions of the miracles were not penned by the persons USING the technology, but by witnesses to the events or people to whom the tales were told.

In my opinion, reports of miracles could very well be evidence of advanced technology perceived by primitive minds.

In that sense, miracles still happen daily. Moreso now than ever before. Heck, miracles have become downright commonplace in the Information Age.

White Dove

Good point. My microwave oven is definately a miracle!

Twitch

Maybe it hasn't. Perhaps the concept of god was flawed to begin with. Therefore, will it ever be understood and defined completely? Can it?

proplog2

Auld Soul: It does seem like an epic star trek movie! The funny thing is that, conjuring up these Science Fiction scenarios, at least leaves your brain in one piece. If you take the Bible at face value you start to hate the main character.

OUTLAW

Proplog2..The last line,in your last post..Solid Gold!...OUTLAW

oldflame

Simply put, Jesus is the opening and the closing, when he came and died for us it was the fullfillment of all things. No prophets no visions are needed today. Today all we need is the Lord Jesus and to follow his two laws, to love God and your neighbor.

nvrgnbk

Simply put, Jesus is the opening and the closing, when he came and died for us it was the fullfillment of all things. No prophets no visions are needed today. Today all we need is the Lord Jesus and to follow his two laws, to love God and your neighbor.

If miracles were needed to strengthen the faith of his disciples and confirm their authenticity so soon after his earthly presence, wouldn't they be even more critical today, 2000 years after?

Brother Apostate

I'm going to be as terse as possible on this subject.

Volumes have been written about it, and the truth is, there a lot of explanations out there.

My personal beliefs are summarized as follows:

1)- Hebrews 11 makes clear that faith is what is required, specifically Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

Once a miracle has been performed, is faith necessary? Only faith in what has yet to be revealed. So miracles can be a tool to convince "doubting Thomas" types.

2)- So, God has arranged for miracles to be performed yet again, before His final judgement, in the form of the two witnesses of Revelation 11:

The Two Witnesses

1 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.

During the days of the second woe, all the "doubting Thomas" types will have their opportunity to see miracles yet again. This will be the final chance for the smug mockers and scorners to humble themselves and put faith in God and His Son's redeeming sacrifice.

BA- I believe we are in the days described in Revelation as the "First Woe". It's all coming true, if you take the time to study and look around what is going on earthwide in our day.

MegaDude

Assuming the miracles were real, why didn't they stop Judas from betraying Jesus? Or better yet, Peter from denying him?

Why have things changed?

The Two Witnesses

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