What does hate have to do with logic? I personally know that when people develop positive emotional attachments to churches, political parties and the like that they become more than willing to justify, deny, or have complete cognitive dissonance of horrible things done within the organization they subscribe to. Democrats, Republicans,JWs, Morons.
Primary (age 5) isn't youth??? Aren't you grasping at straws?? Can't one be scared by hell fire at 5 and by son's of perdition at 7???
The Mormon doctrine of hell is contradictory. You assume it has to make sense, or be uniform and consistent.
1. The Book of Mormon describes hell as a place of torment and burning to which all non-Christians will be condemned. Apparently you didn't read my reference in Mosiah ch 3 about hell, fire, damnation AND brimstone???
2 D&C76 mentions 3 degrees of glory and outer darkness. The most righteous Temple Mormon get to live with God in the Celestial Kingdom. Lesser folks will get either the Terrestial or Telestial kingdom, depending on how naughty they were. Only the Sons of Perdition (apostates from Mormonism) will be condemned to "outer darkness" to spend eternity in torment with Satan. This can also be interpreted as anyone who says or thinks the words "I deny the truth" or "I deny God's power" or "I deny the Holy Ghost."
The D&C 76 quote on perdition is as follows:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is ano forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35
Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father cbefore the worlds were made.
The Mormons say that the Book of Mormon is a record of the fullness of the gospel, as given to the Lamanites and Nephites. The Mormons are unique in their belief on Temple Work, Baptisms for the dead, temple marriages/sealings, the 3 degrees of glory, preexistence and the Word of wisdom. If the Nephites had it all, why isn't any of that mentioned in the B of Mormon? --BECAUSE THESE IDEAS DIDN"T EVOLVE IN JOSEPHS HEAD UNTIL LATER.
You quoted an article in wikipedia. When I was 5, Wikipedia didn't exist. My sunday school teacher couldn't have quoted from it. Further, good brother, you know that church members are admonished to teach ONLY from the standard works of the Bible, BOM,D&C and POGP. Church leadership knows that too much embarrassing stuff will come out if people start studying History of the Church, Journal of Discourses etc. I have quoted the scripture that scared the shit out of me as a YOUTH. The son of perdition quote you gave is from the King Follett discourse-- NOT WITHIN THE STANDARD WORKS.
Further, to be honest about your use of wikipedia, you forgot the part in wiki that said:
It "is frequently—though not universally —added that a son of perdition must have a "perfect knowledge" of Jesus and that mere faith or belief in him is not enough."
Looking back, it really was my fault. As a 7 year old YOUTH, I should have had my scriptural lawyer with me. He could have broken all the "stay with the standard works" rules from on high and clarified things with the Follett quote. Once again, I assert that Thomas Paine was correct when he said that any religion that has things in it that would SHOCK the mind of a child CANNOT be a true system.
Yes, these things did cause me serious damage. If you want to nit pick on calling it brain damage or psychological damage, then you are straining at a nat.
Not doing hometeaching IS a big deal. I HAVE heard mission presidents, Bishops and Stake Presidents tell us that if we fail to do our duty, the blood and sins of those in our charge will be put on our head.
You say I suffer from the inability to distinguish "
metaphor from reality and enhanced emotional reasoning". I say it is the F**king leaders problem when they fail to identify when they are speaking doctrinally or metaphorically.You say I have lack of backbone. Maybe the recovering JW's here have a lack of backbone. Does it not take COURAGE to stand up against the fear and threats of the church and say "This is bullshit!!"? In the mission field, do we not ask people to open up their minds to the POSSIBILITY that the BOM is true?? Does this not involve opening up the range of possibilities for them? Does it not require a WILLINGNESS to follow through, no matter how painful? I now ask you to broaden your field as Gordon B Hinkley has said. Either the church is true as JS said it was, or it is a false, damnable heresy. Repeat in your mind: The church is either true or it is a false damnable heresy. Rinse your mind, repeat. Repeat until you are willing to follow through discovery, no matter what the results.
I don't want to scare my kids with mormon crap either. Corrections have begun.
Yes, I did the mission thing in the Bible belt. I was mostly confronted with pathetic appeals to biblical scripture, or vain rails against Joseph having more than one wife. I must admit guilty pleasure in the few encounters I had with the Witnesses. I DID NOT HEAR that joseph had begun translating a forgery known as the kinderhook plates. I DID NOT hear that most of the Chandler Papyrus from which the Book of Abraham was translated were rediscovered. I DID NOT know that the papyrus have been translated by modern Egyptologists and that the church agrees that the translation says NOTHING ABOUT ABRAHAM. I further did not hear about Joseph secretely proposing to other mens wives and marrying them while the husband was away.
You seem confused by how I could hate so much in the church, and yet want some of it's ideas to be true. This is because you do not understand a fundamental tool of cults: Whiplashing subjects between extreme hope and extreme fear. It's a motivational tool that is actually counterproductive. Yes, I am glad to defuse the mormon fear colossus. Can't I still long for the beautiful fairy tales it told? How long have you been reading these similar stories on a recovering JW board?? Another tool cults use is isolating the dissenter. In the mission field, I was made to feel like I was the only one who couldn't work the required 90 hours/week. I was the only one feeling like I couldn't "be the machine". Recently, my stake president and "his scholarly friend" at BYU tried telling me I was the only one they had heard of that had issues with church history. I am glad to say, BULLSHIT, there are thousands and thousands of us.
I agree with the mission statement at postmormon.org. They are not "Anti" mormon. They are "POST" mormon. We seek to take the good from the LDS church and leave behind the lies, manipulation and the BRAIN damage(I'm speaking metaphorically here). The good includes thoughts and teachings on humility, forgiveness, patience, fellowship and gratitude. I am thankful the church helped me live a life free of addictive substance, and to be free of the problems of sexual promiscuity.
You have much to learn about the LDS church and cult recovery, grasshopper.
You can come out of your scared corner now SusanHere. Your cognitive dissonance is very strong.