Hillary,
Didn't take it personally. Be aware that I am NOT christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, taoist or anything else. I am an agnostic at the very best (if you consider that "best"). In truth, I am closer to atheist. Therefore, I "cling" to no religion.
You call it laughable that people should learn from the mistakes of others. I don't think so. When was the Koran written? Hadith? THe answer is long after the Torah or Bible. It is not an "ancient" religion. Additionally, despite what you might be thinking, the christians didn't start the battles that were eventually called the crusades. Despite what it is that muslims would tell you, a simple look at who struck the blow that caused the pope to react so violently should be read carefully. THe muslims overran the area and it was decided it was time to remove them. While I don't agree with what happened, necessarily, the victims were most certainly NOT the muslims. They were the cause of the problem.
Again, personally, I consider most religions to be the things that caused most conflicts. People following an imaginary "god" need others to bolster their belief in that fairy tale. To make myself clear, I am not saying that god is a fairy tale, but that every blasted religion is..... all of them. Are some worse than others? Surely. Reading their books usually tells the tale. In the case of Islam, that is a fact.
Read the Hadith...... I have and what it says, due to the recent nature of its production, is easy to understand. Translation from arabic to english is a piece of cake, unlike the ancient tongues the other "bibles" are written. But "believe" what you wish. The issue is Islam. Read the books and it becomes more than obvious. Mohammed was NOT a nice guy, especially in later life... which is significant in their religion since allah can change his mind in that religion. The book says so..... and he apparently does...... but you would have to read them to understand that.
Again, not taking it personally. This is a discussion about a fairy tale and the incredibly debilitating effects of believing in a fairy tale. In my opinion, the reality of the whole thing is that they could say they believe in sleeping beauty and it would have as much validity as religions in general.
By the way, have you actually read Mein Kampf? Again, I have. Do you know where hitler got his ideas concerning the jews? You really should read about some of his allies before answering. When you figure that one out, you will be as shocked as I was when I was first introduced to the FACTS and the extraordinarily heavy evidence to support it.
Islam Diss'ed Again....
by chappy 59 Replies latest jw friends
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MikeA
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jaguarbass
Mohamed's not going to get too much respect in the USA. But that might be part of the big conspiracy.
Not that they deserve any respect, but it seems possible to me that W. fabricated or at least amplified an Islamic boogie man to marshall the US troops into a foolish battle to pillage the US treasurey and line the pockets of the multinational corporations that allowed him to steal the US presidency.
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Double Edge
BREAKING NEWS: The teacher is being deported from Sudan, without the lashes. They gave her 15 days (which she already served) and deportation. I think EVERY western teacher and laborer should leave and let them all rot in their ignorant "bliss".
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stillajwexelder
My prophet has got a bigger dick than your prophet
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MikeA
stillajwexelder, What a name :)
That is about the "size" of it....... pun intended. -
serotonin_wraith
They gave her 15 days (which she already served)
No.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7119399.stm -
He said Mrs Gibbons would only serve another 10 days in prison, having already spent five in custody since her arrest.
And deportation means she loses her job and is cut off from the kids she was teaching.
So what now? Well, as with the Danish cartoons incident, the more they demand respect, the more people will want to make a point about their unreasonableness. They could have been adult about the cartoons and hardly anyone would have seen them, but because they made such a fuss, the cartoons were posted all over the 'net in defiance. I can see a similar thing happening with Muhammad teddy bears, I've already seen some on ebay.
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hillary_step
MikeA,
You call it laughable that people should learn from the mistakes of others.
I did not say this. This is a misrepresentation of what I wrote and competely taken out of context. This what I wrote:
On the matter of religious comparisons, of course my argument washes. There would have been no Koran without the Judeo-Christain Bible as the two are interwoven and in numerous ways as I have already noted blend without problems. Your rebutal that "they should have learned" from, presumably the mistakes made by other religions, is quite laughable and shows a complete ignorance of the evolution of social movements.
If you read the rest of my post more carefully, you will see that I was clearly underlining that your idea that Islam should learn from the mistakes of other religions is laughable and shows an ignorance of social history. Things just do not work this way in life and I outlined examples to show why not. So as an argument, it has little if any value at all.
As a non-believer, I would have thought that you would have a less focused view of religious books, as they are all pretty much a barbaric nonsense in more ways than they should be, would serve one better intellectually.
As to my reading list, well I have read the Koran, but the Hadith only in selected parts. As to "Mein Kampf". Yes, not only have I read it in both the English And the German languages, but I actually sold a first edition of this book signed by Addy Hitler himself a few years ago, so I am very well aware of its contents.
I did not suggest that the Koran or the Hadith are "ancient" books, in fact it was I who dated the Koran on this thread and drew its contextual association with an ancient book, the Bible. Hence the Koran being the Bible's little brother. I see no great difference in Old Testament ethics and the ethics outlined in the Koran. One has had the benefit of time and social evolution to make it less "remembered" but they both stand as a rag-bag mixture of unhealthy horizons.
The problem is that reading historical books is quite a useless process unless they are placed in the framework of their times and then lessons drawn from them. I think the latter part of this process, the most important aspect, has been dismissed by you in some ways.
Cheers - HS
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William Penwell
I can feel a South Park episode coming.....
Did anyone ever see the one they did on the Religious Super heroes and there was one charater called Mohamad. I am surprised they weren't forced to take that one off the rerun schedule.
Will
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Mary
If you read the rest of my post more carefully, you will see that I was clearly underlining that your idea that Islam should learn from the mistakes of other religions is laughable and shows an ignorance of social history. Things just do not work this way in life and I outlined examples to show why not. So as an argument, it has little if any value at all.
Sorry, but that, is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. The entire human race, our cultures, our religions, our wars---everything, has evolved and a great part of that evolution is by "learning from the mistakes" of other cultures and religions along the way. That's how we progress----by learning from past mistakes, whether our own, or from others. Yes, the Old Testament is full of horrendous murders, rapes, etc. but guess what? You don't see the Jews of today still attempting to enforce these ancient and arbitrary laws on stoning wayward children, or putting to death a woman who doesn't scream while being raped, etc. Far from being perfect, they've still 'learned from mistakes' and to a great degree, so has Christianity. They don't put someone on the rack for questioning the Catholic Church anymore and they don't burn people at the stake.
In other words: we've learned from past mistakes and we've evolved.
Islam has absolutely refused to progress with the rest of the world and are still enforcing barbaric rules (such as the one being discussed), and go absolutely mental at the slightest thing (such as the Danish cartoon incident). Their views of women are absolutely repulsive and their punishments for the slightest slip in decorum is sick and barbaric.
Muslims claim that it's not their religion that's responsible, but rather it's a "cultural" issue. Unfortunately, their cultures are based entirely on their religion. No culture or religion is perfect, but Islam takes first prize for being a bunch of backward, chauvenistic lunatics.
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