Terry, What you say about conscientious objectors being pushed to fight to prove to society they are liars is very interesting psychological territory. It is like raping a woman who says she doesn't want sex and doing so until she enjoys it! Same territory - looking for an emotional/biological response to prove ones already made up mindset. I would say it proves nothing but others would say it does - like when someones wife enjoyes a forced experience with a guy but she stays she loves him and he can't believe it coz she didn't play 'dead' with the other guy....etc - same territory and I find it fascinating but can't at this minute work out a good summary of what's exactly going on! I'm also intrigued about the birthday/Christmas saga for JWs. We both know how isolating a culture each child lives in despite being associated with regular society. We both understand the importance of human bonding within groups of people in helping them gain all sorts of acceptance and likely partners. (Human Zoo D.Morris covers this and He has a book out in Jan - the naked male/man). My point here lies in whether the WT chose to deny followers B & Ch based upon their knowledge of human friendship bonding and how community celebrations can bee powerful contributors to many lasting friendships which go deeper than literature. In other words I suspect their pure reasoning lies in denying followers 'associations' and not in the birthdays being un-scriptural - which they try to claim! In effect they remove all opportunities for a free thinking person to move on smoothly into regular society if and when they so choose. Satan is their excuse for subjecting individuals to this dictatorial institutionalism! Just a few thoughts - if I don't fire them now they'll be forgotten!
WILL YOU kindly help me?
by Terry 86 Replies latest jw friends
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Terry
In other words I suspect their pure reasoning lies in denying followers 'associations' and not in the birthdays being un-scriptural - which they try to claim! In effect they remove all opportunities for a free thinking person to move on smoothly into regular society if and when they so choose. Satan is their excuse for subjecting individuals to this dictatorial institutionalism! Just a few thoughts - if I don't fire them now they'll be forgotten!
Jehovah's Witnesses started off on a long evolution, socially, when what was left of the Second Adventists tore away from the mainline churches to chase after the thrill of Armageddon (which never came.) They burned their bridges. Psychologically, these people were anti-authority to begin with. But, by running from mainstream Christianity they put themselves in a double bind situation.
They fell for the charismatic leader pitfall. William Miller was a terrific salesman for convincing End Times prophesy from the pulpit. This was because he was an ex-farm boy, an ex-military hero and a former Baptist from a fine family of devout believers who reluctantly discovered when the date of Christ's second coming would be.
The humble nature of Miller and his very convincing scriptural presentations and chronology gave these already contrarian-by-nature Christians enough ammunition to break with the dogma of the church.
The Great Disappointment only meant they had to find a way to be right some other way after all!
There were two disappointments, really. Miller went along with both and admitted he was wrong after the second one. But, he never gave an inch on believing Christ was due any day!
Where did this leave Second Advent people? They needed yet another convincing argument to continue on their contrarian course. That's all!
It was provided by special "visions" granted to a lady (Ellen G.White). Special revelation provided the gimmick to go on developing a way to stay away from the "normal" church regimen. Like Saul on the road to Damascus, Elizabeth was contacted full force by Jesus (allegedly).
He gave her what the Adventists needed.
Young Charles Russell was convinced by another of the off-shoot preachers of the Adventist myth, George Stoors, that the 2nd coming was a genuine event happening in Russell's own lifetime.
Russell was anti-authority as well. He had broken faith with the Presbyterian church of his family upbringing and had become a Congregationalist purely because of an anti-authoritarian stance. Each Congregational church was autonomous and not centrally controlled.
When Russell finally broke with the mainstream Adventist people he went right on building a following by force of their theology (with his own refinements) and personal charisma.
The Bible Students were charisma junkies, you see.
But, Maria Russell cooked up a way for her husband, Charles, (and herself) to become Authorities on prophecy and scripture. When the new doctrine (never before heard or seen in Christianity until Maria invented it!) of the Faithful and Discreet Slave was revealed, everything changed for the Bible Students.
They went from being charismatic leader chasers to Authority junkies. Russell's Studies in the Scriptures began to be viewed as SUPERIOR to the bible itself. Yes, that's right.
By the time Russell died and Rutherford wrested control from the board appointed by Russell in his will, the stage was set for another charismatic/Authoritarian to take over.
Rutherford rode on the coat-tails of Russell's theology until he could concoct a strong enough position to grab a large number of ex-adventist/ex-Russellite/ex-bible students for himself.
He released a bogus "posthumous" Finished Mystery. He continued to refer to Rutherford as the "slave". He agreed with the Pyramidology. But, he was working on making an Armageddon prediction of his own to rally the gang into a real strong push for solidarity (behind him) before the END arrived; this time in 1925.
Rutherford found out who was who in all the Bible Student congregations and began setting up controls. The Autonomy vanished and real Authority began.
By the time 1925 failed to produce what Rutherford had promised; it was too late to turn back for those he had co-opted into joining him.
From that time until now, the Authoritarian mindset grew stronger and stronger with more and more radical controls on membership.
By making every NORMAL behavior into a "worldly" display of Satanic behavior Rutherford isolated the Kingdom Halls and the brothers and sisters in them. Step by step he made them so weird, abnormal, contrarian and suspicious of every social convention that they could only turn to him and to each other for allies and support.
It was an inhuman thing to do, of course. But, it worked like dynamite.
The more out of touch you are with the surroundings in your community; the more dependant you become. If you cannot trust anything you hear or read except that which comes from Brooklyn, NY---you are the subject of strict obedience and mind control.
Date Setting/Predictions
- Main article: Unfulfilled religious prophecies
Date of the Second Coming Author Notes October 22, 1844 William Miller and the Millerite Movement The fact that this failed to happen the way people were expecting was later referred to as the Great Disappointment. Some Millerites continued to set dates; others founded the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the Advent Christian Church, which continued to expect the Second Coming but no longer set dates for it. 1874 Charles Taze Russell Russell was the first person to successfully publicize to the world discussion about the Parousia [citation needed] . He taught that the invisible Parousia of Christ began in 1874 while stating that the sudden increase in knowledge, travel and worldwide inventions was directly related to this event. 1914 Jehovah's Witnesses The interpretation of the Second Coming is important in the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses, as these hold that it occurred in 1914, and instead of an apocalyptic Second Coming it is to be interpreted as an unseen presence, and the visible events of the final times will occur at a later date. 1917-1930 Sun Myung Moon The followers of Reverend Sun Myung Moon consider Rev. Moon to be the Lord of the Second Advent called by Jesus Christ on Easter Sunday at the age of 15 on a Korean Mountainside. (See Divine Principle) 1930s Rudolf Steiner Steiner described the physical incarnation of Christ as a unique event, but predicted that Christ would reappear in the etheric, or lowest spiritual, plane beginning in the 1930s. This would manifest in various ways: as a new spiritual approach to community life and between individuals; in more and more individuals discovering fully conscious access to the etheric plane (clairvoyance); and in Christ's appearance to groups of seekers gathered together.[3] mid-1940s through 1975 Herbert W. Armstrong Armstrong, Pastor-General of the Radio Church of God, and then the Worldwide Church of God, predicted the return of Jesus Christ in various iterations between the mid-1940s and 1975. Of particular note was the book 1975 in Prophecy! written by Armstrong and published by the Radio Church of God in 1956. 1994 Harold Camping Harold Camping, WFME radio Bible founder and teacher, published a book, "1994", a prediction of Christ's return for that year. [15] . 1999 through 2009 Jerry Falwell Fundamentalist preacher Jerry Falwell predicted in 1999 that the Second Coming would probably be within 10 years. [16] 1999 Nostradamus Nostradamus predicted that "from the sky will come a great King of Terror" in 1999 [17] . This was interpreted by some as a prophecy about the second coming of Jesus. When this didn't occur, some of his followers and those of Edgar Cayce claimed that Jesus was conceived in 1998, born in 1999, and is currently living on Earth as a reincarnated person. September 13, 2007 Paul Sides Paul Sides[4] predicted that September 13, 2007 marks the end of 7 years of "wars and rumors of war" that erupted when The Oslo Accords were annulled. Then he predicts a final 7 year "tribulation period" that culminates in a war over the Holy Land that brings back the Messiah. 2012 Jack Van Impe TelevangelistJack Van Impe has, over the years, predicted many specific years and dates for the second coming of Jesus, but has continued to move his prediction later. Many of these dates have already passed, and he recently pointed to 2012 as a possible date for the second coming. Van Impe no longer claims to know the exact date of the Second Coming, but quotes verses which imply that mankind should know when the second coming is near. Unknown Master Beinsa Douno Master Beinsa Douno prediction for the Second Appearance of Christ: "Christ Impulse will gradually penetrate into the human being and will take over guidance during the further development of the humankind (sic.). We are still in the beginning of all this now." (Master Beinsa Douno, The Master, The Life of the Sixth Race', ISBN 954-744-050-0, [5], 1900-1946, Society Byalo Bratstvo - Bulgaria) Unknown Rastafari movement The Rastafari movement believes Haile Selassie is the second coming (although he himself did not encourage this belief). He embodied this when he became Emperor of Ethiopia, but is also expected to return a second time to initiate the apocalyptic day of judgment. Haile Selassie, also called Jah Ras Tafari, is often considered to be alive by members of the Rastafari movement. [18] -
Terry
My point here lies in whether the WT chose to deny followers Birthdays & Christmas based upon their knowledge of human friendship bonding and how community celebrations can bee powerful contributors to many lasting friendships which go deeper than literature. In other words I suspect their pure reasoning lies in denying followers 'associations' and not in the birthdays being un-scriptural - which they try to claim! In effect they remove all opportunities for a free thinking person to move on smoothly into regular society if and when they so choose.
Authoritarian leaders suffer a disease of the mind. Control is the be-all and end-all of existence.
The interesting psychology of Jehovah's Witness leadership is how a few fragile old men on power trips can hide what they are doing from themselves and others by wearing a mask. The mask is the trumped-up Wizard of Oz persona of the Faithful and Discreet Slave.
No one single person has to see themselves as a control freak meddling in personal lives.
It is a great and terrible mental illness!!
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stillconcerned
Terry-
The legal process that got you there, and the attitude/demeanor of those inforcing the process, are of interest to me. (Perhaps as a lawyer, mainly.)
Are you writing the book aimed at ex-JWs, non-JW, current JWs or all of afore-mentioned?
If aimed at non-JWs, you'll need to do a lot of explaining of the basic mindset etc of average (or rabid) JW. Otherwise, the non-JWs will be lost (and uninterested).
I've never been JW.
In the course in interviewing literally thousands of JW and ex-JW fact witnesses and abuse survivors, I got a "JW education". I have found that many ex-JWs have a hard time explaining their JW experience in terms that others can grasp or process adequately.
Before you 'go to print', I'd consider having an 'other' read/edit the entire work for readability as to non-JWs, if that's one of your audiences.
I am a fellow Fort Worthian, so references to my 'home turf' and courthouse are interesting to ME.. :)
kimberlee d.
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BluesBrother
I admit that I have not read all the posts in this thread. If I were to read a book about this subject, I would be most interested in the mindset and circumstances leading up to the young mans decision . Did he feel forced to object? did he secretly want to enlist? was he secretly pleased that he did not have to face the military ?
How was he coached by the congregation? what were the rewards held out for being faithful? what were the consequences of joining up? Was it really a visceral inward decision on his part? Did he really feel that God was pleased with his stand and would be displeased if he joined up?
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Terry
Are you writing the book aimed at ex-JWs, non-JW, current JWs or all of afore-mentioned?
If aimed at non-JWs, you'll need to do a lot of explaining of the basic mindset etc of average (or rabid) JW. Otherwise, the non-JWs will be lost (and uninterested).
I've never been JW.
In the course in interviewing literally thousands of JW and ex-JW fact witnesses and abuse survivors, I got a "JW education". I have found that many ex-JWs have a hard time explaining their JW experience in terms that others can grasp or process adequately.
Before you 'go to print', I'd consider having an 'other' read/edit the entire work for readability as to non-JWs, if that's one of your audiences.
I am a fellow Fort Worthian, so references to my 'home turf' and courthouse are interesting to ME.. :)
I'm making several Fort Worth references in my book which will paint it with local color.
I'm aiming the book at curious people who aren't necessarily Jehovah's Witnesses. Ex-JW's will find it particularly interesting. Why?
I'm doing a refute-as-you-go approach by having my characters speak rebuttals in their conversations just as they happened in real life.
I posted a good example of this today in my novel excerpt about my DRAFT BOARD encounter.
Anybody can read it and get a pretty good education in how Jehovah's Witnesses operate, think, reason, refute and utterly fail to be either spiritual, Christian or effective in their own lives.
The mistake most Anti-Jw books make comes from offering huge chunks of technical proofs and arguments that only a legal mind could think entertaining or worth considerting.
Take as an example the truly outstanding books by Ray Franz. They are riveting reading for an Ex-JW only. Current JW's and non JW's would find them almost incomprehensible without plodding through them and cherry picking.
This is no slam on Franz. No way! His books are specialized. I want my novel to be accessible and personal in a way that is not bellicose and argumentatively in the face of the reader. It is the main character who must face the arguments. It is the main character who must represent the JW mindset. The mainstream characters who deal with him inside and outside of prison demonstrate how weird this theology appears to be to ordinary people.
The prison sequences are another world entirely. I create the contrasts necessary to show JW's are in a genuine bind of their own making and how the congregations back home don't even give them much thought at all or support.
The irony is dramatic.
Thanks for your thoughts!
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/148604/1.ashx EXCERPT
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R.Crusoe
I know in my own life experience that my mindset now, at this point in time, would give an individual completely opposite advice on what it would say 20 years ago, about certain life changing subject matter to another individual. And I decided to apply that same consciousness to myself 'IN ROLE' as a member of the faithfull and discreet slave. Being a part of a group would alleviate me of personal accountability - and so I likely will feel more at ease with group decisions in terms of their not making me feel personally responsible for their consequences. But if everyone is feeling the same collectively, one wonders about who is considered to have the best Godlink in determining the lifestyles of over 6million followers. Is everyone resting on the laurells of another? Is everyone being led by a certain dominant individual? And as the years pass by, how do I allow myself to 'mature' my views and perspective whilst the organization as a whole is still leading the followers along lines I now disagree with? Group dynamics are tricky - and when cut and pasted onto larger groups will undoubtedly lose something in the translation depending on the personal circumstance of each individual. IT IS WHY WHEN THEY ADVOCATE REMOVAL OF EACH INDIVIDUALS AUTONOMOUS RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR OWN BELIEF I COULD ALMOST VOMIT! Claiming this to be divinely inspired is worse than tricking a child into believing a well painted plaster of paris statue is holy! Deploreable. It detracts, distracts, misleads and ensures failure!