Lakota Indian tribe is now its own nation!

by skeeter1 33 Replies latest social current

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    Thanks Marmot and Skeeter. Nice to have a discussion with folks not intent on manipulating the words being spoken into something prejudicial.

    As for reading - not sure which I would suggest because I've read so much. Right now I'm into 'white' slavery history. It's a subject that I glossed over in history many years ago but that I've been reading more about and when combined with the politics of the day, it's quite enlightening. Did you know that there was a whole Irish village kidnapped by slave traders? The Africans were notorious for kidnapping and the English use of it's own poor, by sending them to the islands to work as slaves, predated the use of African slaves. Amazing history. Sorry I digress....I did not grow up on a reservation but some of my family are Metis so I have a pretty good view on things. No culture is perfect and it's a shame that we just can't take the best of each and make something better. sammieswife.

  • avishai
    avishai
    Skeeter, be careful about seeing the "Indian Way" with rose-colored glasses. I grew up on reservation and I'm also a student of history and it's my conclusion that the Native peoples would have taken a path similar to Western culture if it had been left in isolation for longer and populations had continued to grow.

    The whole "in tune with mother earth" line is a bunch of baloney. We had an impact on the environment but it was mitigated by lower population density. My own ancestors practiced slash and burn agriculture, which is perfectly fine if you're only supporting a limited population but when you have large-scale production it becomes unsustainable. The same goes for hunting and fishing. On the cultural side we also practiced war and slavery. First Nations were no different from any other culture at that particular period of development.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

    I also have some "native" background, but I've been sick to death hearing my whole life the whole "noble savage" thing as if it gave folks some genetic, mystical and moral authority. And been called a racist more than once when I disagree.

  • BrentR
    BrentR

    Sign me up! It could not be any worse then the stinkhole this country has turned into. They may need to barrow some of my firearms to get thier plan implemented but I would consider that a minor inconvenience.

  • flipper
    flipper

    Very interesting thread ! Thanks for putting it here ! Granted some of you are correct, there was slavery in the native american culture as there was the american culture towards African american people. That being said, it is acknowledged, true. However it still does not eliminate the fact that the europeans who came to this continent had a culture in which they " owned " land , which many of the east coast native americans did not have that word in their vocabulary. Many of them would trade the land with other native americans or trade foodstuffs , and borrow from each other . So, the europeans " bought " the land from the native americans without them understanding what the " ownership " concept was, early on, initially in the early 1800's.

    Tecumseh, a Shawnee chief in the early 1800's tried to get the other tribes to unify to fight back against the newly formed american government , even enlisting the aid of the British in one battle , but the British chickened out, backed off, and Tecumseh and the other tribes could not withstand the onslaught of the american government . It is in the history books. If Tecumseh had been successful, survived , perhaps we would be seeing white europeans on reservations these days and forced to get rid of their native tongue and forced to become Catholics , and lose their native religion. Something to consider ! Bottom line : The native americans were forced off their land they lived on for centuries before the coming of the euros. And the african americans were taken and sold into servitude unjustly to the United States slave owners. It was all bad, including native americans enslaving each other. End of my rant. And yes, I'm part native american. But either way, I'm a justice freak

  • Mincan
    Mincan
    Tecumseh, a Shawnee chief in the early 1800's tried to get the other tribes to unify to fight back against the newly formed american government , even enlisting the aid of the British in one battle , but the British chickened out, backed off, and Tecumseh and the other tribes could not withstand the onslaught of the american government . It is in the history books.

    This is true. I'd like to add that the Native Americans under Tecumseh allied themselves to the British/Canadian forces in the War of 1812 and without them many of the British and Canadian wins may not have happened. When Sir Isaac Brock captured Fort Detroit in 1812 one of the main reasons the American commander William Hull surrendered the fort (with twice the amount of regulars than the British under Brock's Command, about 1000 to 2000) without a fight was his fear of the Natives that were aligned with Brock (Brock only had about 400 with him, but he made them continually walk in a line through the trees in sight of the fort so it appeared that there were more of them) would slaughter the inhabitants of the fort if they did not surrender.

    The Battle of Queenston Heights, one of the most important Canadian victories of that first year of the war, also relied heavily on Native assistance, albeit local Native help from the Six Nations Natives that were living in the Grand River area of modern day southern Ontario. Natives under Joseph Brant (A Scots-Native) assisted the flanking manuvers of Major-General Roger Hale Sheaffe, who had taken command of the British regulars and Canadian militia after Sir Isaac Brock died trying to storm the heights after the Americans had captured the Redan Battery atop it.

    The next year, in 1813, the Natives heavily assisted General Procter and his British forces at the Bombardment of Fort Meigs, although this Fort withstood the assault of the Royal Artillery (quite admirably! thousands of cannon balls hit the fort but it was built well into earthworks), there was still several victories on this campaign, such as the River Raisin and Frenchtown assualts. Unfortunately for Tecumseh and the Natives, this Campaign ended in the British withdrawing from the far numerically superior American forces under William Henry Harrison (later President of the United States) and his Kentucky Cavalry (1000 strong) (Populations of the US at this time was 8 million, population of Upper Canada was about 300,000, and 500,000 in Lower Canada, the US had virtually unlimited resources (just research the warship building and arms race on the Great Lakes at the time!) whereas the British were reluctant to send military assistance as they were heavily involved fighting Napoleon on the European continent, mainly Wellington's Campaign in Spain). The Battle Mr. Flipper was referring to was the Battle of Moraviantown (known as the Battle of the Thames to Americans) where the Kentucky Cavalry charged the British line, who hardly fired a volley before retreating under Procter's orders. Tecumseh and his Natives continued fighting the cavalry and American regulars in the woods by themselves - a lost cause. This was around November 5 1813 I believe, could have the month day wrong...?

    It's truly sad both Brock and Tecumseh died, they both admired each other abundantly, and Brock had the British promise the Natives their own soveriegn nation (what was then the Michigan Territory, now the State of Michigan) should the British win the war. As we know, the Treaty of Ghent (Dec 24 1814) returned everything to the status quo prior to the war, and even though the British had captured Detroit (the only American city in history post-Revolution to be captured and occupied successfully; The British did capture Baltimore and Washington, but these were briefly near the end of the war) and the Michigan Territory was under their control, this was returned to American control.

  • Sparkplug
    Sparkplug

    Aw Great. My Son is Lakota. That encompasses the "Flathead" Correct? We were just trying to figure out how to get him on the 'books' because his family is registered with the tribe right up to his father....but seeing they are JW's, they won't help. I have to figure it out on my own. Now...Wonder if it is a wise thing to do?

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    Well, I'm very much pro native American Indian.......................BUT...........................

    I wish the Native American way could be our way. They left a small footprint on the earth. They did not destroy it, but lived in harmony with the land.

    They also had tribal rivalries and would kill and plunder. As Marmot said, we can see these things through rose-coloured glasses. I think it says something when a native person says that if left to their own devices they would probably have grown to be like Europeans. Remember, our ancients were not too unlike Lakota and other native Americans in their early lifestyle. One cannot stop progress, be it good or bad, and the chances are native Americans would eventually have had their own industrial revolution.

    Ian

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Marmot is right.

    Native Americans are probably at least partly responsible for the demise of much of North American megafauna.

    Burn

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    people are people, and other people always like to romanticize foreign cultures - if it ain't white, it's gotta be right. I don't think there has ever been a culture that was any better than the rest. However, on another tack, have you ever read The Mouse That Roared? Methinks there's a little of that in the works.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Well lets hope this gets resolved soon. The Lakota remember themselves as great warriors. And they have grievances aplenty. If this gets too acrimonious it could spawn more terrorists than a Pakistani madrassa. Just look at the Basque separatists in Spain as an example.

    Burn

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