If Adam did not sin, would humans have lived forever on earth?

by jwfacts 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  quietlyleaving

  JosephMalik

  The new heavens described here is simply the Biblical term for governments that rule it as in Col 1:16 and the new earth simply describes its new population mix all of which results in righteousness on this planet. After all what are we awaiting biblically? The same thing that Martha was awaiting, the resurrection on the last day, not a translation to somewhere else as non humans that will not be on this planet.

  I have a question regarding your point above.

  If the new heavens is simply a term for governments then imo it follows that the new earth could be taken as a term for a new society. Why should we restrict ourselves to saying that the new government and new society have to be earthly? where does it say so in the bible?
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  JosephMalik

  Why should we restrict ourselves to saying that the new government and new society have to be earthly? where does it say so in the bible?

  quietlyleaving,

  Ps 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
  Mt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

  This is the theme of the entire Bible from start to finish. It will all happen here. This is the reason Christ was promised by the men in white robes to return here in the flesh just like He left. 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. It is the word heaven and how it was used that many have abused. 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. We await this new heavens and a new earth, on this planet not somewhere else we know nothing about.

  Joseph
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  JosephMalik

  Well you know...a perfect person would not fall out of a tree or off a mountain. They wouldn't make that mistake.

  Bonnie_Clyde,

  And you know that how? We are not even talking about a perfect person at such a time but an immortal person. But do you have proof that even such an immortal person cannot fall out of a tree and die? Where? The faith had provisions already established in scripture such as the laying on of hands and the ability to raise the dead. A better way to think about something like this is the application of such capabliities.

  Joseph
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  OnTheWayOut

  what would have happened if Adam and Eve had not sinned.

  Then some priesthood would eventually have written that it happened anyway.
  OH, WAIT- That did happen.
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  Narkissos

  If Willy Coyote had catch the RoadRunner....

  Imo Gerard is spot on.

  A story is what it is. Change it and it will be another story.

  A primevalstory (a story on origins) can follow an infinity of narrative lines but what can never change is its end. It has to end up with reality (as perceived by the storyteller and his hearers/readers).

  In the case of Genesis 2:4b--3 the end of the story coincides with the understanding of human condition as implying some access to divine knowledge, death, work, sex and childbearing, male domination, etc.

  Strangely enough we never hear the same kind of "what if" questions about Genesis 1... what if God made three suns instead of one?
• 

  proplog2

  The idea of everlasting life is egotistical. None of us are so special or unique that there isn't another flesh module that could easily fill our space. Life wants to keep going. That's why the earth is filled with living organisms. Slap an extra layer of cortex on the brain so a living organism can abstract qualities and you idealize life's struggle to continue to the level of "everlasting". The New World Translation avoids the word "everlasting" and uses "time indefinite". I think that's a good translation because it makes sense. Even more sense than the Watchtower realizes. I would be content with living in a world without war. That would be sufficient paradise for me.
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  Awakened07

  Yep - it's a story. One of the punishments for sinning by eating of the fruit, was the pain of childbirth.

  What does that imply though?

  It implies that before sinning, Eve would not have had pain during child birth. Which means she would either have had a totally different physiology (but God was done creating by then), or she had absolutely no feeling 'down there', which would make it troublesome both to have sex, and... bowel movements etc.
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  Steve J

  the Adam/Eve story doesn't say they would live forever

  Maybe its just that; a story.

  Steve J
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  Phil

  The whole story of Adam and Eve is a myth as is the same for all the stories in the Bible. Hope I did not burst someones bubble.
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  Narkissos

  Yep - it's a story. One of the punishments for sinning by eating of the fruit, was the pain of childbirth.

  What does that imply though?

  It implies that before sinning, Eve would not have had pain during child birth. Which means she would either have had a totally different physiology (but God was done creating by then), or she had absolutely no feeling 'down there', which would make it troublesome both to have sex, and... bowel movements etc.

  Yep. More generally if we interrupt the story (by a "what if," for instance) at any point before its conclusion (i.e. "reality") we are left with logical impossibilities: a sexual difference without sexuality and reproduction, a talking snake which doesn't "walk on its belly," a man with a language and no knowledge, etc.

  Btw, a half-stupid answer to a stupid question might be: had Adam and Eve not sinned, they would have remained two smiling idiots in paradise, and we wouldn't be here to tell the story -- there would have been no story to tell actually.