You just can't reach some people-they just don't get it!

by dawg 39 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  uninformed

  Dawg, you wrote the following:

  Now, I'm not saying that all of us should always agree, what i'm saying is that even when we do we shouldn't walk off thinking the other person is a complete moron, or that thery've broken the rules of of a logical debate. But in fact that sometimes happens, here's the point, maybe roomate was right, maybe some people just aren't that smart.

  Quick JW example, I give a well thought out point to my Dad, in writing.... he calls me a fornicator... While it may be true, fornication is one of my favorite things to do, the fact that I'm a fornicator or not has nothing to do with the information I've sent him...as a matter of fact, my fornicating is an attack on my character and a different argument all together. So, he thinks this defends his views, the fact that I'm a fornicator proves the JWs right in some way, he goes stright on the attack of me, while never addressing my well researched argument, and then after that he'll tell me he's proven his point and proven me wrong.... infurating.

  Do you guys see what I'm saying? Isn't it infurating and how do you deal with it?

  JW's can't stand the pressure of a good argument with logic, so they develop a "kill the messenger" mentality. I did a little brochure when I left and one of the quotes that I had in it was from an Awake article, of 6-22-2000:

  ***

  g006/22p.6TheManipulationofInformation***

  Name-Calling

  Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name-caller’s strategy has worked.

  Just say, Dad, I know I have sinned. That's why I need Jesus Christ. I know you have never sinned or made a mistake, right? OK, now that we have it out of the way that we are both sinners, how about answering my argument.

  I know it won't work, but its worth a try. I have a 34 year old MS or Elder son that won't even speak to me. I don't know how to get to his brain. Last July I wrote him a 13 page letter in hopes of a response, but it was apparently just a waste of time.

  Brant
• 

  Gopher

  Hi Dawg, good to see you again.

  Some people don't know how to listen for the unexpected. I thought the point of conversations was not only to tell your point, but to really listen to what the other person has to say. People who don't really listen shield themselves from valuable insights in a conversation. And they aren't being civil.
• 

  Robert7

  JWs are trained to not even think about listening to anything against The Truth. Anything against the WT doctrine is Apostacy in their eyes. It's like a filtering process. If you give any logic, it immediately gets filtered out as Apostacy before their brains can actually process the logic. If you immediately discard anything remotely negative about the WTS, you will never see anything but The Truth. They're good...
• 

  dawg

  Whatshappneing....That's what I'm talking about!

  Worldtraveler-that a great point.

  Farimind-You don't believe in God-same as fornicator isn't it? A way to steer clear of the issue... just damn!

  Coldcreekswimmer-Fornicator-married 20 years... how the hell can anyone with a brain respond to your dad? Man, what a waste... and is he just not intelligent or what's the problekm? That's what I don't get.

  Willyman-You're right

  Antichrist-I'm wrong all the time, it doesn't hurt my felings at all, I simply learn form my mistakes.

  Jgnat-Funny jokes.

  Uninformed-Its such a waste.... but why? Why do so many take a stand for what is clearly wrong?

  Gopher-Good to hear form you man.

  Robert7-and all that posted... its not just the JW issue thought is it? SOme folks just can't reason... wouldn't you agree?
• 

  nomoreguilt

  Well, dawg, it's true. There are many people who have never developed the POWER of reason. It is a power, and a very formidable one at that. When you HAVE the power to reason, then you are enabled to overturn the narrow minded dictates of any one thought.

  Back in the 80's we were told by the wts that there were in fact, GRAY areas of thought and teaching. However, if you approached someone on a certain point of teaching, say perhaps, the use of alcohol, they personally may not believe in drinking it at all. Therefore, there would be NO reasoning with him, even in a matter of conscience or of it being a GRAY area. Because they never developed the power of reason, they hence have become and always will be unreasoning. It's not in their learned abilities.

  It doesn't matter what they may WANT to believe themselves, they will only Listen to and believe what is told to them is RIGHT! Do you follow me?

  NMG
• 

  dinah

  Hey Dawg,

  Excellent questions. Great to see you again!

  To me, it's more a refusal to think than lack of ability. When a Witness hears something that differs from the the FDS says they usually just scream "Apostate" and run off with their head on fire.
• 

  Finally-Free

  I hadn't even started speaking nor had I brought up the core of my point before he started screaming like some wild manaic;

  I've had too many people like that in my life, including the ones who raised me. Usually they are people who, even under normal circumstances, won't let you finish a single sentence without interjecting their own comments. They don't listen to what you have to say, because they don't care what you have to say. Everything is all about them. They are always right because they say so, and they are more than willing to attack your personality in an effort to prove that you are beneath them, and therefore not credible. As pointed out by others here, they are toxic. I believe this toxicity can be contagious if a person is surrounded by such people too often or for too long a time. I won't let people like that into my life any more. I can be negative enough without their help, and I'm trying to get over that.

  W
• 

  mrsjones5

  Reading through this thread the thought just stuck me (and I think I've had this thought before) that jws use words to subsitute for other words like "fornicator" for mutherf**ker or a phrase of words like "you're an apostate" for "you're f**ked" or "we'll see who's right when Armmgeddon comes" for "go to hell".

  Has anyone had that thought too?

  Josie
• 

  What-A-Coincidence

  so true dawg...not everyone is ready for the 'pill'
• 

  changeling

  Now, I'm not saying that all of us should always agree, what i'm saying is that even when we do we shouldn't walk off thinking the other person is a complete moron, or that thery've broken the rules of of a logical debate. But in fact that sometimes happens, here's the point, maybe roomate was right, maybe some people just aren't that smart

  So true!

  Nice to see you back!

  changeling