MADDIE- I know you are in the same situation with your son- as I am with my two daughters. It is amazing how witnesses will tend to lose their cult personality around non-JW family or people. My older daughter- a regular pioneer , worked on a clean up job with my wife and I that I had been contracted to do last February. I also had about 3 or 4 of my son's " worldly" buddies helping me on this job, and my witness daughter was so relaxed, and easygoing with my son's friends it was amazing. It was so good to see my daughter's real, kind personality resurface. So, I feel it's possible to get these kids back to reality. It will just take some time and effort.
GEORGIEGIRL- I appreciate you're wanting me to put this thread in the " private " section, however the subject probably would not have received as many posters responding - which I felt was important. I'm glad you responded though !
I too am a second generation witness and my siblings children and my children were 3rd generation. You bring up a good question about not having former experiences to draw on outside of the cult experience. Well in that case , you just have to find something your family did outside of the witness cult or experience to draw from. For instance- Is there a vacation you took with some family members that was in the mountains- away from assemblies , or kingdom halls ? Did you play some fun sports together ? Go to movies together ? Maybe elementary school experiences together ? Skip rope together ? You get my point- think hard about something you did - which did not involve the cult experience. I'm sure you can find something if you dig deep enough in your life experiences. Then- when you find that past experience, share it with one of your family members. Don't try to get all of them out in one crack- that is taking on too much at once. Just concentrate on one or two people. Take small steps at first sharing fun things you did in the past( non-witness things). I bet you will see a happier personality open up in your relatives. Try it- and let me know what you find, what happens.Good luck, and Peace out to you, Mr. Flipper
Current & Former Elders- Will You Help Witnesses - Get Out of the Cult ?
by flipper 58 Replies latest jw friends
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flipper
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compound complex
Hey, Mr. Flipper:
There are already former MS and elders here that are listening. Some are already out. Trouble is, some of them tell other JWs where they heard such information and they quote me! I am only the messenger ... don't kill the messenger.
JWs taught me to preach and that's what I'm doing - putting in pioneer hours.
It's a career ... isn't that what the Society wants????????
Thanks,
CoCo
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by grace
Hi Mr. Flipper,
I read Steve Hassan's book that you mentioned....I left the borg almost 3 years ago, actually my husband & I both left at the same time. We went in together, blew 10 years of our lives, and came out together. BTW, that is a great book!! Read it, and re-read a few sections, it's all good. If you or anyone else can help someone out, however it can be done, I say give it a try. I tried forwarding an e-mail of that information to several JWs. They responded that they were concerned for me that I might be reading apostate material. My husband tried to talk to some of our old "friends." It didn't work right off, but, you know if any seeds were planted, someday they may grow. :)
It's a heck of a thing to waste years of your life trying to be a good JW. I just can't believe how much better I feel now!!! I'm finally able to work full time again. I was unemployed for 3 years (for the first time in my life). My autoimmune disease is GONE. Seriously, was tested, and it's gone. And, I'm taking another class at the community college this semester. I love life and enjoy living again.
Leaving the WTS is the best decision I've ever made. Thanks to those of you on this site and others like it. I came across the truth about the truth (LOL) because I was looking for information about the "new publication" that was coming out at the convention I had coming up. Low & behold, I found someone talking about it, but I also came across some info about the UN scandal, and then many others. The truth really did set us free! Thank you all!!!
And Mr. Flipper, since that is your name :) , I have to tell you, my husband and I went swimming with the dolphins in September in Key Largo. WOW what a great time we had. It was definitely one of the best things I've ever done. It's good to live again. I hope I give hope to someone out there. Here my husband and I are free from the bondage that we once lived in.
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flipper
JK- I agree with you. Current elders would have to use these techniques very carefully, "incognito" virtually to avoid getting busted in helping others out of the cult. I hope you can get your 2 friends out.Maybe if you faked out your elder friend and said you wanted to get back into the cult you could decoy him and plant " exiting mind control tactics "? lol! (Just joking ! ) I know you love controlling your own mind. I wouldn't want to lose you back to that cult -you are too much fun. I like the non-cult JK !
CoCo- I hear what you are saying. I'm sure a lot of former MS and elders have helped people get out of the cult. Well, if they ask your identity just tell them you are " Steve Hassan " and you have this great book, " Combatting Cult Mind Control". Then the elders can say that you are just a famous author- that's all ! Peace. LOL!
BY GRACE- I'm happy you have got help by getting on this JWD site ! I'm so glad you and your husband escaped the cult together. I'm glad you are living life to the full, feeling better physically, emotionally, and going to a community college. I too feel much better after leaving the witnesses 4 years ago. More peace in my life ! Happy you got to swim with the dolphinsyou and your husband ! Aren't we nice creatures to swim with ? LOL! Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
VoidEater
1. Demonstrate to the person he or she is in a trap
"But I can't imagine being anywhere else, where else will I go, it's too late to change my hopes and dreams"
connecting with a cult members core identity, or personality that the person had before they joined the cult.
Hard to do when they were raised inside.
I will have to get Hassan's book - it might help me with my dad. He's so stubborn - he wants to WTS to change so that he can happily be "in", and while I'm sure there's a core personality in there it never had an opportunity to spread its wings outside.
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flipper
VOIDEATER- Hey guy, good reply ! The weird thing is witnesses don't realize they are in a trap ! That is the quandary of it. I hope you can help your Dad loosen the cult's grip on him. Try to think of things you and him have done together over the years that were fun, which had nothing to do with the Jehovah's Witness experience. Like fishing, golf, camping, etc. There must be something ! And approach it from those good times shared aspect- where the witnesses won't even come up in discussion, initially. I would be willing to bet you will build a rapport with him dwelling on those good times , first. Then , once you have gained his trust talking about those shared good times- you can gradually bring in subtle discussions of how you have noticed what other cults ( non-witness ) churches do to control their members. Then- by association, your dad may make the connection that what other religions are doing to control their members is wrong, and he just might start putting two and two together. It takes time, but I've been told it can work ! Good luck, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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moshe
I am not into spoon feeding adults. The ones who are still in the KH have many more resources to help them get out than I did 20 years ago.
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AllTimeJeff
Now that I resigned and am thus shunned, I have no sway on any current members. I would be happy to do so if I could. I am sort of viewed like the ebola virus in my old home.
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flipper
MOSHE- I agree with you, adults do need to feed themselves . It is much better for a cult member to leave of their own initiative than being led by the nose, so to speak. I agree. However, if they are being given " poisonous food " they are so " cult mind controlled ", they might need someone to put little signposts up to see where to go along the way.
ALLTIME JEFF- Maybe you can't assist those people in your old home area, but perhaps witnesses who don't know you can benefit from your assistance. For instance even lurking witnesses on the board here who need help to escape the mind controlling cult . I know I enjoy your posts- you have a lot of good takes on things. peace out, Mr. Flipper -
by grace
Mr. Flipper,
I have to correct myself, the book that I quoted to several of my friends via e-mail was from: The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. You should definitely read that one, if you haven't already. I always told my mom, it's not a cult! I was so sure!!!! Between this book & Steve Hassan's, I knew I had been had.
Here is an excerpt:
Misplaced Loyalty: Because authority is assumed or legislated (and therefore not real), following must be legislated as well. A common way this is accomplished is by setting up a system where disloyalty to or disagreement with the leadership is construed as the same thing as disobeying God. Questioning leaders is equal to questioning God. After all, the leader is the authority, and authority is always right. This causes people to misplace their loyalty in a leader, a church, or an organization. Once again, this makes the wall around the system thicker and makes it more difficult to leave.
We Alone Are Right: There are three factors that come into play here, adding up to misplaced loyalty. First, leadership projects a "we alone are right!" mentality, which permeates the system. Members must remain in the system if they want to be "safe," or to stay "on good terms" with God, or not to be viewed as wrong or "backslidden."
Scare Tactics: Not long ago a Christian man made it clear to us that he had separated himself from the world by not fellowshipping with "the infidels." As we talked, we learned that his definition of "infidel" was not limited to non-Christians. It also included Christians from other denominations, certain Christians from his own denomination, and even Christians from his own church who didn't think as he did. In fact, we were dismayed to learn that we were also considered "infidels" because we failed to agree with him. We have counseled many Christians who, after deciding to leave their church, were told horrifying things. "God is going to withdraw His Spirit from you and your family." "God will destroy your business." "Without our protection, Satan will get your children." "You and your family will come under a curse." This is spiritual blackmail and it's abuse. And it does cause people to stay in abusive places.
Humiliation: The third method of calling forth misplaced loyalty is the threat of humiliation. This is done by publicly shaming, exposing, or threatening to remove people from the group.In the abusive system, it is the fear of being exposed, humiliated, or removed that insures your proper allegiance, and insulates those in authority. You can be "exposed" for asking too many questions, for disobeying the unspoken rules, or for disagreeing with authority. People are made public examples in order to send a message to those who remain. Others have phone campaigns launched against them, to warn their friends and others in the group about how "dangerous" they are. One of several things usually happens after such pressures are employed. First, people stay and shut up. Second, they are eventually driven away because they end up isolated and spiritually starved to death. Third, they finally get up and say, "Fine, I am leaving because this is abusive and I disagree."
Conclusion: When these characteristics exist in a church or Christian family system, the result will be spiritual abuse. It will be a closed system, with rigid boundaries that prevent people from leaving. There will be the perception of a lot of evil on the outside, to keep people in, and there will be a lot of power postured on the inside to compel you to perform. There will also be tired, wounded people who feel that they are either unspiritual or crazy. And they will have major problems relating to God from the heart.