by flipper 58 Replies latest jw friends
You got it dude!
I won't give up until we have made a major ripple in the ranks.
WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!
There are too many innocent JWs who have done nothing wrong, except allow themselves to be trapped in a mind control group.
They deserve to be freed!!
Thanks for the encourage Mr. Flipper!
Peace out,
The Oracle
Good JOB Oracle!
Actually I think the most influential people would be those they trust and care about. It is a challenge to drop a hint or idea and still maintain that. Hassan says to take it slowly and to back off when the cult personality pops up a barrier. Come back to the topic another time. It is important to know people's private concerns they have already, any run ins they have had with jws that were nasty and/or "unchristian" or doubts about WTS teachings or personal speculations of jws they hang out with. Be a real friend, help them in ways you know that jws will never do. Realize that this does not happen over night, not even over a year. It may even take longer. What really is effective is their own experiences with the WTS and its members. I tend to as jws what God would think seeing what happened. Would he approve? If the jw doing those things persist do they have any everlasting future? Do other jws approve of and support those actions? How did Jesus react to the wrong words and actions of those claiming to serve God?
If you're no longer associated you're instantly viewed as "off limits" to any dub with a modicum of loyalty to the borg. I was in for 28 years, elder for 14 and was highly respected by hundreds in this area as I was "semi-prominent". (kinda like being "semi-professional"?) I crave to be able to talk with so many I have deep affection for. I managed to avoid DFing (as far as I know). But when we sent out letters to all those we had been close to, some for decades, regarding how I was being "hunted" by the elders because I had the gumption to speak confidentially to one person about the UN affair, and then provided all details of the UN matter with an accompanying evidence packet in the letter, the lack of response was disturbing. One sister to whom I had been very close told me I was "dangerous". One emailed us to say how hurt she was that we were trying to "destroy her faith". Another wrote an email that was an attempt to empathize, but simply attributed my position to "bad treatment" I had received. Out of over 50 letters we sent, not one, I repeat, not oneperson responded in any way to the issue that was the focal point of the letter. Now these were all people that I had felt we were very close to for 10, 20 and even 30 years. I realize this is not the approach Hassan recommends. It was kind of a sledgehammer. But at the time I felt my DFing was imminent and that this was my last opportunity to warn them. Out of over 50 people, not even one wanted to either (a.) take issue with the points in my letter; or (b.) express concern over the issues I raised.
It's true, someone who is an active elder can use that deception to have some effect, but I have a problem with the ethics of that method. I don't believe the end justifies the means. In the end, the ones who stay in do so by choice. We know they've been conned, as we were. And we really want to help them. Especially if we had a share in getting them involved or in encouraging them to stay loyal when we were in. To that end I do feel we have a responsibility to discharge. Whether it's paying them a visit (which we also tried with a few) or writing them a letter, I think we owe them that. But if they refuse to respond, we can't force them.
If someone finds a method that works, even with only a 10% success rate, I think their thread will be the most heavily viewed in the history of this forum. And I will salute them. But the dark side is strong.
Agreed - the dark side is very, very strong...not impenetrable at all times, but intensely black most of the time.
Sharing happy memories of any experience which was shared in a non-witness setting with close family or friends will help bring back the non-cult personality , or the original personality one was born with . So , Sammies wife , think of experiences which have been shared with the person you are trying to help- what positive experiences have happened outside the cult ? Vacations, recreation, golfing, camping, Disneyland, anything which will make that person think positive, " outside the cult box" so to speak to bring back a non-cult personality . Peace. Good luck.
The JW's that I know are the zealots - lifers - those whose families did not associate with worldly people including any extended families that happened to be worldly, therefore, there are no pleasant non-witness memories to recall and link to. I don't believe that I'm alone in this observation. The society purposely isolates the members like every successful cult will do, effectively allowing only comradeship and memories to be linked to the good fellowship of the other members. If vacations (if you want to call a day away a vacation) or any recreation were in the company of only other JW's, then there is no other comparator. It becomes further complex when you adhere to the admonishing from the GB to marry only in the faith and are now surrounded by more family full entrenched in the cult. So you see - for those raised in, married into and surrounded by only JW's, it becomes extremely difficult to use this method. I believe this will work for many who have memories of their prior cult involvement but next to impossible to use on those deep inside - for those people - I tend to believe that it takes a major life altering experience to open their eyes and for many the best way to achieve that is disfellowshipping. This destructive act, although extremely difficult to overcome for the victim, most generally is a jolt into the world as the person suddenly realizes that their value to the organization and their own families is nil as compared to the society. sammieswife.
Oracle-You take me back to the days when I was doing that as an elder. I might still be if it wasn't for the fact that my daughter was getting older and I wanted her out completely. Keep up the good work.
Isaac
As a current elder (about to be former), the most that I say you can do is to live meaningfully and successfully once you exit. That will be the greatest signifier to them that "hey, you don't crumble and die once you're on the outside," and that there is a life to be lived and you have the power to make it productive.
You all can come and try out any and all techniques on my jw! I think men would be best as I believe he thinks women should not attempt to teach him anything.
Abandoned - wow, thanks for that link. Excellent poem! I truly agree.
As a current elder (about to be former), the most that I say you can do is to live meaningfully and successfully once you exit. That will be the greatest signifier to them that "hey, you don't crumble and die once you're on the outside," and that there is a life to be lived and you have the power to make it productive.
Amen! Living well is the best revenge :) I'm a former elder & pioneer. I still live in my old hometown. I frequent the local Panera on Saturdays where my old JW friends take coffee break while they are out doing the D2D. I want them to see that I am still alive and well. I've been out for 10 years now and I'm amazed at how old and tired and haggard my old friends look.
