Why did jesus say not to touch him after the resurrection?

by sinis 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • hmike
    hmike

    Joseph,

    Jesus did not ascend then and would not ascend for some forty more days.

    I know that in Acts, Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives. Is it not possible he returned to the Father after the resurrection, then returned to earth as he chose—until the time of that ascent?

    Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' " (John 20:17, NIV)

    Perhaps he went to the Father immediately after saying that, as I suggested earlier. It would be after this, when he returned to the disciples, that Thomas called him "My Lord and my God!" (20:28).

    Jesus was fully human at the time, flesh and bone. (Where there is bone there is blood as well)

    Flesh and bone, yes, but blood?

    I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. (1 Cor. 15:50, NIV)

    Isn't it possible that the imperishable body, while physical, no longer operates on the same principles as life now? Maybe there would be a different kind of fluid to carry out oxygen exchange, or perhaps this new body wouldn't even need that process. Perhaps these new cells don't die or reproduce. Flesh to give the body form and a skeletal system to give it support makes sense, but it would have life sustained differently than we have now, perhaps made of a material we don't know anything about. Paul calls it a "spiritual body." It definitely has to be different .

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    That is a very interesting question.

    my answer is simply: because.

  • dinah
    dinah

    Priest,

    Gee thanks, now I have my Lord and Savior dancing around in hammer pants all day.

    One thought. If Jesus was saving Mary from being unclean, why did they all embrace Lazarus when he was brought back to life?

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    I know that in Acts, Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives. Is it not possible he returned to the Father after the resurrection, then returned to earth as he chose — until the time of that ascent?

    hmike,

    First, this is an assumption and you have no proof. Second, that would make it His second coming which did not happen then. This is also why a human body was not used when Paul was selected by Christ to be His apostle. There is a hypostasis nature to Christ that I am not including here as it was not offered to us. But you can still pick this out in some texts about him

    You said: Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

    (John 20:17, NIV)

    Perhaps he went to the Father immediately after saying that, as I suggested earlier. It would be after this, when he returned to the disciples, that Thomas called him "My Lord and my God!" (20:28).

    He said this because everyone was expecting the kingdom and this let them know right from the start that this was not his purpose at this time. Forty days later they still expected it but they were already told that this was not the case and should have known better. Jesus did not start becoming our god at this time. John makes it clear that he was our god when he was still the Word. So Thomas did well to acknowledge this as John did.

    You said: Flesh and bone, yes, but blood?

    Yes, this is where the blood originates. It is a simply way to say I am really human. But we know that he was something more than that which is what? An immortal human being. Jesus was not the only immortal being in existence in the universe but he was the only human being to gain immortality. This is why Paul said: 1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. And 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: This is our hope as well at some future time. But now we run into a false doctrine that totally distorts this reality by teaching we go somewhere else to be immortal and non-human to boot. This is an extension of the serpents lie that indicated we would be like God.

    You said: I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

    (1 Cor. 15:50, NIV)

    This was Paul

    ’ s way to describe the mortality we now have. It clearly shows that teachings like the WT one that we can simply live into this kingdom without being changed is false. Only those changed to become imperishable can enter. This is also called spiritual since it is a God given attribute we did not have before. But they are still flesh and bone as Jesus was.

    You said: Isn't it possible that the imperishable body, while physical, no longer operates on the same principles as life now? Maybe there would be a different kind of fluid to carry out oxygen exchange, or perhaps this new body wouldn't even need that process. Perhaps these new cells don't die or reproduce. Flesh to give the body form and a skeletal system to give it support makes sense, but it would have life sustained differently than we have now, perhaps made of a material we don't know anything about. Paul calls it a "spiritual body." It definitely has to be different

    .

    Of course it will be different

    . How exactly we can only speculate as you have done. But there are others things that come into play such as the laying on of hands and such details have not been made known to us. Jesus ate to sustain himself like the mortals around him. An immortal person can die, we should be aware of this just as Jesus did but not by natural causes. So I can only let it go at that.

    Joseph

  • hmike
    hmike

    Joseph,

    It seems reasonable to me that Jesus could enter heaven after his resurrection and return to reveal himself to his disciples and instruct them before the ascension without that being considered the "second coming"—understood to be when he returns in plain view of everyone to set up the earthly kingdom. Where was he when he wasn't with them? I do not have ready access to recognized scholarly commentaries, but the online commentaries I surveyed don't have a problem with that either. Actually, most of them associate a return to the Father following his appearance to Mary with the priestly presentation of the wavesheaf offering or firstfruits following the weekly Sabbath during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. That explanation is new to me, so I will stick with what I see in the text. In John 14 through 16, Jesus mentions the coming and work of the Spirit. Although it appears that much of this is a better fit with the outpouring on the Day of Pentecost, since John states that Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples who were present when he appeared in the locked room, it might be better to stay within the text of John for an explanation. In John 16:7, Jesus says,

    But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

    Jesus had to go away (assuming to the Father) in order for him to send the Spirit. Since he gave his disciples the Spirit while still he was still with them, it seems he had to go to the Father and return.

    So, getting back to the original question about Mary holding on to him, of course Mary could not physically restrain Jesus. Perhaps he was anticipating that she would offer him hospitality—a place to stay and food and drink. Maybe he was letting her know that he could not be detained from going to the Father to receive the authority and power so he could give the Spirit to the disciples when he would appear to them.

    I just see this differently than you. It's not a critical issue—I wouldn't make a doctrine out of it. It just seems like a reasonable answer to the question.

    Mike

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    It seems reasonable to me that Jesus could enter heaven after his resurrection and return to reveal himself to his disciples and instruct them before the ascension without that being considered the "second coming" — understood to be when he returns in plain view of everyone to set up the earthly kingdom.

    HMIKE,

    Anyone can think anything they want and that is why we have so many views floating around the forum. But the evidence is to the contrary. We know what Jesus did not go away and come back since what really happened was recorded for us. Commentaries are fine up to a point but there is a lot of blah blah in them that matches what the WT taught to us. Runing around and showing what happened to Mary was only a distraction. After all the WTS get most of their stuff from such commentaries as well.

    But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

    See. Why did Jesus not do this 40 days sooner if he did as you say? But this Counselor (Comforter, Helper) as it is translated here was something they had to wait for even longer. Restated once again in Acts our Lord said to them: 1:4 NIV On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." You simply have no support.

    The term Spirit means so many different things that telling us it was used here or there does not mean much until the entire text with its context is reviewed. The way you use it does not reflect this. You cannot ignore what Jesus said and did and then modify it with an assumption. I know you see things differently. And now you see my reasons for disagreeing with them.

    Joseph

  • oompa
    oompa

    maybe Jesus was afraid if she touched him, it may lead to him whipping out his perfect penis and goin at it.....just a thought.....oompa

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