Oh it's all about obediance. I remember getting hauled into the back room for not going to the elders when a friend confessed that he cheated on his wife to me. He had cheated b4 and they had made up but he was up to his antics again. My friend said if it ever went to the elders, he would deny it. So without two or more witnesses it could go no further, but I did tell the wife. Based on certain facts I related (facts that meant nothing to me), she knew it to be the truth. However the elders ganged up on me and tried to blast me on not going to them first. It was a verbal brawl but I got them to admit that without another witness it was gossip. (As my friend did deny as he said he would.)
Was anything scriptual about that incident? no. But their big point which they kept drumming was that if it happans again, I had better go to them first. I disagreed based on scripture. Then they would play the obediance card.
So would a body DF someone on this card? Depending on the body I think yes. Obediance or a bad attitude = DF.
Example #2:
One brother admits to an affair he had 20 years ago before he was baptized. Wife is annoyed and goes to the elders. They round up the brothers for a commitee meeting. The brother again admits to the affair but shows little remorse since it's been 20 years and it was b4 he was baptized. Well what did they DF him for? You guessed it! Attitude and that he wasn't obediant to the body for refusing to apologize for the incident. BTW he appealed and it was rescinded.
I think the noose just tightened a bit.
by 5go 94 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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wha happened?
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blondie
wha happened, I see though that at least they started out with a traditional DF offense, adultery. To date, missing meetings is not an official DFoffense.
Some jws did try to apply the scriptures following Hebrews 10:24,25 to label nonmeeting attendance an unforgivable sin. This is from 1980, but this is the most current position. I don't doubt that it is possible for the WTS to come up with some "explanation" making non meeting attendance a DFing offense. But so far they officially encourage their members to reach out and help inactive members. Note as recently as 2006 they were doing this.
*** w80 11/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
Does the missing of Christian meetings in itself constitute an unforgivable sin, since, at Hebrews 10:24-29, the apostle Paul speaks of this sin right after discussing the importance of meetings?Failure to heed the command to attend Christian meetings is serious and could lead to disastrous consequences for a servant of Jehovah. However, more is involved in committing the unforgivable sin.
Reading the full 10th chapter of Hebrews will be helpful in understanding the matter. The apostle first points out that sacrifices under the Law provided no forgiveness of sins, but were a shadow of good things to come, involving the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Jehovah provided Jesus Christ as the perfect sacrifice to take away sins. This is a specific provision of the "new covenant." The apostle gives encouragement to "hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering." (Heb. 10:23) How can this be done? He points out the necessity of gathering together regularly to incite to fine works, not giving in to the custom of some to slight Christian meetings. Rather, we should be attending such meetings "all the more so as you behold the day drawing near."—Vs. 25.
It is in this setting that the apostle continues: "For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. Of how much more severe a punishment, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified?"—Heb. 10:26-29.
Hence, the conjunction "for" that begins the paragraph at verse 26 is not just a connective to the exhortation to attend Christian meetings, but ties back to all that is said prior thereto. One must accept God’s way of salvation through Christ and continue to appreciate this provision, while having in mind that the attending of meetings is one of the ways Jehovah has provided to keep one strong in faith and active in good works. That this is the case is further confirmed by what the apostle says in verse 29, where he shows what punishment is due one who "has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified."
So we should not discuss Hebrews 10:24, 25 out of its setting and imply that failure to attend the meetings regularly is in itself what the apostle is talking about in discussing those who commit the unforgivable sin. Of course, when a person has "the custom" of not attending the meetings, he is working against his own spiritual interests and is in grave danger of growing weak in faith and becoming inactive in Christian works. This, in turn, could lead to a person’s actually denying or not taking seriously the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his thus losing out on everlasting life.
The sin mentioned at Hebrews 10:26-29 does not apply to one from which the sinner is able to repent in sincere grief, appealing to God through Jesus for divine mercy. The sinner has actually renounced the Son of God as his savior and esteemed his sacrifice as having no redeeming value.—Compare Hebrews 6:4-6.
Such a person is sinning against accurate knowledge and the operation of God’s holy spirit, and there is no possibility of his repenting and availing himself of God’s provision for salvation through Christ. God has made no other means available for saving such a willful sinner.
*** km 2/06 p. 5 A Help That Is Readily to Be Found ***
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Anna, a sister with an unbelieving husband and a demanding work schedule, found it a struggle to attend Christian meetings regularly, participate in the ministry, and study God’s Word. Though she still loved Jehovah, she became inactive. Happily, she received spiritual assistance from concerned elders.2
Accepting the spiritual help offered through the Christian congregation demonstrates reliance on Jehovah himself. In imitation of Jesus Christ’s loving care, the older men in the congregation seek opportunities to offer encouragement and practical assistance to those experiencing spiritual difficulty. (1 Thess. 5:14) Oftentimes, a kind word of encouragement centered on reassuring Scriptural passages can be just what is needed. Reaching out to support those in a temporarily weak condition is of concern to all Christians, not just the elders. No doubt each of us has experienced the power of a thoughtful "word spoken at the right time for it."—Prov. 25:11; Isa. 35:3, 4.3
TaketheInitiative: Showing loving interest in those who need help requires that we take the initiative, show fellow feeling, and be earnest. When Jonathan became aware of David’s distressing situation, he "rose up and went to David at Horesh, that he might strengthen his hand." (1 Sam. 23:15, 16) Use a gentle approach to help others. Words motivated by genuine concern yield the best results. Furthermore, Jesus clearly illustrated that diligent, purposeful effort is involved in regaining a spiritual brother or sister. (Luke 15:4) Having an earnest desire to assist another person will move us to persevere in offering help even if progress is not quickly manifest.4
How encouraging it is when we take the initiative to invite others, such as those in our book study, to accompany us in the ministry! As we assist a fellow servant of Jehovah to engage in the ministry, we may use the opportunity to strengthen that one’s hand. Such joyful times spent together in Jehovah’s service are especially encouraging to those who are recovering their spiritual balance.5
ALovingProvision: Those who have not shared in the preaching work or associated with the congregation for some time may need additional help to build up their faith. A personal Bible study in a publication such as WorshiptheOnlyTrueGod,DrawClosetoJehovah, or WhatDoestheBibleReallyTeach? may be just what is needed. Since the person is already baptized, generally the study need not be continued for a prolonged period. The Congregation Service Committee should be alert to observe who might benefit from this provision.—See the November 1998 and November 2000 OurKingdomMinistry Question Boxes.6
Anna, mentioned earlier, gratefully accepted the elders’ offer to have a spiritually mature sister conduct a Bible study with her. It took just four study sessions to help her draw close to Jehovah once again. She resumed attending congregation meetings and rekindled her desire to praise Jehovah God publicly. The mature sister also helped her in the ministry by taking her on other Bible studies until she was sufficiently strengthened to preach from door to door. A helping hand was all that she needed to get going again!7
Strengthening those in need brings blessings to all. The one being helped enjoys the happiness of drawing close to Jehovah and becoming involved with the activities of His organization. The elders rejoice to see such spiritual progress. (Luke 15:5, 6) The congregation is drawn together in unity as all show loving concern for one another. (Col. 3:12-14) What good reasons we have to imitate Jehovah, a help that is readily to be found!—Eph. 5:1.Love, Blondie -
dawg
Blonde, you are a sage and a great source of information... that said, I started reading their dribble and almost puked...I never finished it... how was I ever dumb enough to think that crap was true?
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cultswatter
I 've been out for 25 years I hope I'm off their radar sreens
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BluesBrother
I can remember delivering a Service meeting Item on this subject once .. I thought it was good to read Hebrews 10.25 from the New English Bible because it uses the phrase "Not staying away from our meetings, as some do" . We concluded that since it was directly in The Bible, then it was a sin to miss meetings, unless your were really ill.(not the unforgivable sin though otherwise there would be no dubs left at all)
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5go
Okay let me try to remember the outline
It started some thing be obedient in all things
If an Israelite had decided he didn't need to obey Moses and finish crossing the red sea to be saved. He would be killed with the Egyptian army when the red sea came back.
Analogy to the end times a christian thinking he doesn't need to attend meeting regularly is not obeying counsel from the society, or the elders.(Dfing offence by the book)
Brought out that it has been said by the society recently meeting attendance is important.
Some are DFing the congregation by purposely not attending. Hinted they are evil brothers restated clearly they will not make it through armageddon even if baptized and not DFed. ( may be some new light )
Brought up statistics 37 out of 100 nationwide are not regular in attendance.
Then is was said the elder body came up with an idea. (didn't sound by the tone of his voice it was their idea)
Then said the elders will be making it a part of every shepherding visit to bring up meeting attendance.
He then said the elder body will be stepping up shepherding calls.
Then said if you know of any not regular in attendance to tell your book study overseer.
Not exact but close enough.
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truthsearcher
If an Israelite had decided he didn't need to obey Moses and finish crossing the red sea to be saved. He would be killed with the Egyptian army when the red sea came back.
What if some imposter dressed up like Moses and said "Hey, follow me, everyone! If you don't, you will never escape the big W (that's for big wave). No, no, don't look over there--he's not the REAL Moses--his coat was bought in Egypt--it is PAGAN. You've got to follow me and do exactly what I tell you. Okay, everyone walk on their hands..."
Anyone care to finish the analogy?
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civicsi00
Whatever happened to 2 or 3 gathering together in Jesus' name, and Jesus would be there?
Oh, right. I need to go back and re-read the KM for 2007 September...
Hey, so is this serious? I haven't gone back to the KH in several months, going on a year. I've never received a shepherding call, but if they do decide to come by, I'd like to have my material ready (COC, old WT, etc.)...
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5go
Is it serious atleast in my congregation it sounds so. I haven't got a clear confirmation it has been given else where at of yet.
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besty
FWIW our shepherding experience ina single KH was as follows:
Shepherding Call 1 - in cong about 2 years and still not reappointed MS so my Dad writes to my BoE from 400 miles away requesting an 'encouraging' visit to assess my spirituality. My BoE feel obliged to respond to my Dad so make aforesaid encouraging visit. SweetPea and I say thanks but no thanks politely.
Fast forward 3 years
Shepherding Call 2 - Elder PO + Elder Book Study Conductor visit to find out why I'm not 'reaching out'. Explain I have some issues. They suggest 'Holy Spirit' may not be operative at our address so Book Study can't be held in our home. However they will check whether this is the case or not, in respect of HS being available to our address, and get back to us. Visit ends with Sam in tears and Elders leaving. They never get back to us. The sister with the Book Study in her house sends a nice card sympathising with our situation ie. that we can't have the Book Study in our house. How does she know? Perhaps the HS left our address and went to her address and told her. Either that or the shepherds told her and didn't tell us. Either way...whatever...
Fast forward 3 years
One of the Holy Spirit Parking Attendants (Elder PO) has been removed as an Elder PO and had the Book Study removed from his house. Oops. The other one has died. Shame. Nice bloke. I hope he gets a resurrection to a different religion - maybe Jainism or something.
SweetPea and I take our 2nd son to his first KH Meeting - he is 10 days old. Book Study Conductor approaches me and I quote his opening words: "Hello Paul Can we come round for a shepherding call on Wednesday?" I was expecting him to look at the new baby and make some cooing noises, ask how we were coping and perhaps express some hope of seeing us again soon, but no...straight to the point. I said I would get back to him on his kind offer of a shepherding call...not....
Fast forward 6 months
Elder PO is back on as Elder and is now chairing our JC. (PO is MTS boy and on the JC but taking a back seat to the more experienced oncewasaPObutnowjustanelder) We get disfellowshipped for apostasy.
Shepherding is a good thing - a blessing from Jesus.
I love the elders.
Especially my Elder PO brother who no longer speaks to me and gave evidence to the JC that disfellowshiped us.
Thank you and goodnight.