Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday 254 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  cognizant dissident

  What if you were an ugly, dull, and obnoxious man HS, would you have a "right" to be as successful with the opposite sex as I would be?

  This was my comment. If you note, it was put forth as a hypothetical situation and not a statement of fact. Please read the post for clarification, you do not seem to have done so.

  Obviously, in order to have cut and pasted it, I must have had to read it first. I suggest to you that couching an obvious personal insult in the form of a "hypothetical" question, does not make it any less insulting, nor does it fool anyone as to your intentions.

  Cog
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Hillary did not "jump" the thread. He posted before you and on topic. It was you and Journey-on who brought out the knives and after sticking him with them repeatedly for two pages and not getting any more than a request to reply to the issues, he finally takes a "stab" back, then you both both cry "play nice". As for civil, it's a little late for that, isn't it? Perhaps, in the future, if you do not initiate the incivilities, he will not follow suit, and deservedly so, in my opinion!

  As I mentioned before, the flamewar on this thread did not originate in a vaccum. As you can see quoted from his post below, ad hominem attacks and humiliation are the order of the day.

  As I have noted on numerous occasions, ad hominem in my book is not a logical fallacy when used against arrogant religious fundamentalists or semi-fundamentalists like yourself, who are not open to reason and who involve themselves in threads they have no interest in learning from. Imo they deserve everything they get. There is no point debating fools, and the ad hominem avenue is an well-used road for such ones.

  He often merely jumps on a thread to call them a name and disappears. Here is a recent example. This was his first post on the thread.:

  mrkr32208,

  You really are a rather stupid person. Do not breed. If you already have, section yourself.

  HS

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/14/149585/2721126/post.ashx#2721126

  Burn
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Hey Folks:

  I apologize if I am interrupting an amusing tirade, but socialism is a topic of interest and I wanted to post some thoughts. Basically, the original constitution was drafted by individuals who were land owners, some were even slave owners, members of the new american military and government. We all know that it included the freedom to pursue economic success without the hinderance of abusive taxation.

  My, how far we have gone since the Boston Tea Party! We have our two party system and the lobbyists that support it with campaign contributions and corrupting influences. Thus, the parties take turns "picking the pockets" of the under classes. Corporations literally control the government, the markets and legislation. Labor no longer has a powerful voice and the unionized syndicate of brotherhood of workers are all but powerless due to internal curruption and organized crime relationships.

  So, how does a struggling worker, economically challenged, make a difference? Is a nationwide revolt of the middle-class, the working poor, and the poor necessary to send the message and force a change in how the US government is structured? Who knows? I don't think americans have the stomach for an internal conflict. Although, I personally am in favor of a change in government.

  I don't think the dual party system benefits anyone other than politicians, cronies, lobbyists, corporations, foreign investors, and private tycoons. I am in favor of a radical change that would eliminate lobbying and make it illegal, and also eliminate the electoral college and campaign financing. I think the popular vote should choose our officials. I think government should not become a position of privilege and tenure. No senator should serve 30 years. The perks and privileges should be removed.

  I also think corporate executives should be dispossessed of bonuses, golden parachutes, and options when a company continues downsizing and reducing salaries. I think overtime should be mandatory for all workers. Executives shoud be limited to one million dollars a year. Athletes should be limited also and celebrities.

  In order to create a utopia that equalizes the general population sharing resources and reposnsibilities, greed has to be eliminated. In the US, that will never happen, thus, we may never see a socialist leaning government. We all make fun of democrats, but they are not socialist. Not even close to the ideal, not as stated by Trotsky, Gracian or Marx. I don't think Hillary Clinton would ever give up wealth, personal fortunes for the greater good. The democrats are just as greedy and materialistic as anyone else in politics.

  I guess the difference is the democrats use the poor as their shield and the republicans use business as their shield. The end goal is the same. We pay the price for both. We need a new form of government soon, or we collapse like ancient rome. Christianity ruined rome and it is ruining our country too.

  I wish a westernized, balanced form of socialism could be drafted and deployed to the public. But, just another day dream.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Obviously, in order to have cut and pasted it, I must have had to read it first. I suggest to you that couching an obvious personal insult in the form of a "hypothetical" question, does not make it any less insulting, nor does it fool anyone as to your intentions.

  There was no couching. And the substance the comment was not an insult but an analogy created to illustrate a point: that outcome is tied to factors beyond the state's control and that to enforce equal outcomes it unfair. You seem to be able to fabricate a motive that does not exist exceedingly well. Your ability at long range clairvoyance is astounding. I notice you are a Jedi Master. It must be a Jedi Mind Trick.
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  HS!

  I have to admit, it has been a long time since I was able to enjoy your postings! You always make me smile and I always learn something new and am always entertained by the "mosquitoes" that live for every prick and stab since they are toothless and cannot handle a bite of HS! I have missed this place.
• 

  beksbks

  Wow, nice to meet you U R!!!
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Hi B!

  IDEM
• 

  Tatiana

  Hey Folks:

  I apologize if I am interrupting an amusing tirade, but socialism is a topic of interest and I wanted to post some thoughts. Basically, the original constitution was drafted by individuals who were land owners, some were even slave owners, members of the new american military and government. We all know that it included the freedom to pursue economic success without the hinderance of abusive taxation.

  My, how far we have gone since the Boston Tea Party! We have our two party system and the lobbyists that support it with campaign contributions and corrupting influences. Thus, the parties take turns "picking the pockets" of the under classes. Corporations literally control the government, the markets and legislation. Labor no longer has a powerful voice and the unionized syndicate of brotherhood of workers are all but powerless due to internal curruption and organized crime relationships.

  So, how does a struggling worker, economically challenged, make a difference? Is a nationwide revolt of the middle-class, the working poor, and the poor necessary to send the message and force a change in how the US government is structured? Who knows? I don't think americans have the stomach for an internal conflict. Although, I personally am in favor of a change in government.

  I don't think the dual party system benefits anyone other than politicians, cronies, lobbyists, corporations, foreign investors, and private tycoons. I am in favor of a radical change that would eliminate lobbying and make it illegal, and also eliminate the electoral college and campaign financing. I think the popular vote should choose our officials. I think government should not become a position of privilege and tenure. No senator should serve 30 years. The perks and privileges should be removed.

  I also think corporate executives should be dispossessed of bonuses, golden parachutes, and options when a company continues downsizing and reducing salaries. I think overtime should be mandatory for all workers. Executives shoud be limited to one million dollars a year. Athletes should be limited also and celebrities.

  In order to create a utopia that equalizes the general population sharing resources and reposnsibilities, greed has to be eliminated. In the US, that will never happen, thus, we may never see a socialist leaning government. We all make fun of democrats, but they are not socialist. Not even close to the ideal, not as stated by Trotsky, Gracian or Marx. I don't think Hillary Clinton would ever give up wealth, personal fortunes for the greater good. The democrats are just as greedy and materialistic as anyone else in politics.

  I guess the difference is the democrats use the poor as their shield and the republicans use business as their shield. The end goal is the same. We pay the price for both. We need a new form of government soon, or we collapse like ancient rome. Christianity ruined rome and it is ruining our country too.

  I wish a westernized, balanced form of socialism could be drafted and deployed to the public. But, just another day dream.

  I think this post was so on the money and just flys right by all the BS, that I had to post it again!! AND highlight!
• 

  cognizant dissident

  There was no couching. And the substance the comment was not an insult but an analogy created to illustrate a point: that outcome is tied to factors beyond the state's control and that to enforce equal outcomes it unfair. You seem to be able to fabricate a motive that does not exist exceedingly well. Your ability at long range clairvoyance is astounding. I notice you are a Jedi Master. It must be a Jedi Mind Trick.

  Well, it was an analogy, but a poor one, as it was totally unnecessary to use Hillary and his "hypothetical" qualities as the subject of it, when it would have been just as easy to insert, "John Smith". Then there would be no need to question your motives would there, one of which seems to be to carry on disagreements with him which you have had on other threads and hijack this one with them as you yourself demonstrate when you cut posts of his out of context from other threads and post them on this one. You give credence to his claim that you are "following me around this Board like a pair of attack gnats".

  By the way, welcome back UR. Yes, by all means, let's return to THE TOPIC. You make some great points that should be addressed.

  Cog
• 

  sammielee24

  So, how does a struggling worker, economically challenged, make a difference? Is a nationwide revolt of the middle-class, the working poor, and the poor necessary to send the message and force a change in how the US government is structured? Who knows? I don't think americans have the stomach for an internal conflict. Although, I personally am in favor of a change in government.

  That is the only way it will happen. Until the people take back their country and force their government to act on behalf of the people and not against the people, it will remain the same. sammieswife.