News from Mother ship (page 11)

jefferywhat

5go isnt one of the signs of a true religion growth?

Be happy that many are flocking to the mountain of JWD?

I wonder how the growth of JWD compares with that of JW?

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I'm far too out of the JW loop now to have any insider info on issues at Bethel. But, I do know that in the past, especially in the 1980s, there was definitely tension between the Writing and Service Depts. Writing had one point of view, and Service, at least some of them, were much more hardline. I would assume at this point that the Legal and Service Departments function almost as one and the same, and that part of their mission is to make sure that the Writing Dept. doesn't get them all in trouble.

I also think that there is a bit of wishful thinking going on in this thread, people hoping that some in Bethel are paying a little bit of attention to the buzz among the thousands, tens of thousands, no, literally hundreds of thousands who have left the Org and are leaving now.

Truthfully, when I talk to active JWs and a lot of ex-JWs, I realize that most know almost nothing about the issues that trouble many of us here. The UN scandal, the Generation change, the new teaching on the 144,000 not being complete - most of these folks are ignorant of this. I was at a party last Saturday night, and there were five other ex-JWs there. NONE of them are involved in JWD or any ex-JW website. If there is ONE PLACE where people really know about all that is wrong with the WTS, it is Bethel.

If there were to be an effective schism created in the WTS, it would have to be at Bethel.

That having been said, I think the chances of that happening are close to nil. I hope I'm wrong. I will soon be spending a week with a faded JW who has very close family in long time, very responsible positions at Bethel. I'll see if he's heard anything.

S4

leftbelow

Yeah lots on the inside (I mean the ones still on the treadmill) don't know even what they currently teach I talked to a MS two weeks ago and mentioned the new teaching on the 144,000 and he had no idea what I was talking about so I told him maybe he should go back and read his Watchtowers from May 2007 and then he would know what the current teaching was.

cognac

ok, maybe i'm an idiot ~ what the heck is the new 144,000 teaching?

I only read parts of the W&A

5go

That having been said, I think the chances of that happening are close to nil. I hope I'm wrong. I will soon be spending a week with a faded JW who has very close family in long time, very responsible positions at Bethel. I'll see if he's heard anything.

I agree though I have been hearing faint echoes in my book study. Certain questions being asked that every dub should know coming from lifers that should know them already.

The thing our movement needs is a miracle. No, I really mean it. A miracle that can't be explained by the current JW belief system. It will force those infected with the JW meme to reject it or go insane trying to adhere to it. Which would cause the schism we want.

Pray people! Pray for a miracle! Yeah, like that ever worked before.

jefferywhat

The new light is that the previously thought cut off date of 1935 is gone.

New anointed ones are not replacements, the unwritten, unofficial whisper campaign is that Jehovah will choose individuals from every Generation of Jehovahs people.

OOOHHHHAAAAHHHHHH goeth the mob!

this was always based on Rutherford asserting that the two classes are quite equal, before this, the GC were seen as filthy little beggers, but after 1935, they were able to sing a similar song, but not the same song....oh wait up, they could sing the same song but in a different key or maybe the same tune but different words......cant remember.

Anyway, post 1935 the partakers dropped from 52465 in '35 to 24850 in '36, that means 50% were fake, they were singing the new song illegally even!!

Hope that clears things up.

BurnTheShips

5go isnt one of the signs of a true religion growth?

Be happy that many are flocking to the mountain of JWD?

Ah yes, the teeming masses happily exiting those bOrg Bethel buildings as they crumble to the ground!!

alt

SirNose586

They enjoy what I would call “special privileges” as regards research material, doctrinal believes and covenants and the last I know is that their existence is not known by all current GB members…

But as mentioned before, they stay in the shadow and obey the rules and regulations of the org, mostly out of “necessity”.

You have to understand the JW mindset here. If you served God 30, 40, 50 years in an org that you believe to be God’s chosen channel in “the last days” and you have no social network or security, you can’t give it all up because you find something intriguing. And you can’t give it up because you see human things go wrong (pedophilia, UN etc.) or because “the light gets brighter” (blood, generation, 1914). You are too much invested, emotionally, psychologically and materially. You need a major sign that tells you that this organization is not (or no longer) God's chosen agent. Only this would set enough force free for an outright rebellion...

There is a kind of "civil war" going on at the top but not open yet. It's more a war of manipulation currently than of works. Ted is ruling with an iron fist but there are two other powers in the GB. One power is moderate trying to modernize and think ahead for a "no-show scenario" and then there is the power of this group.

Attorn, that sounds too good to be true...

I won't hold my breath for it, but that would be fantastic to see the things you've described come to fruition.

Pallbearer

Attorn said:

There is a kind of "civil war" going on at the top but not open yet. It's more a war of manipulation currently than of works. Ted is ruling with an iron fist but there are two other powers in the GB. One power is moderate trying to modernize and think ahead for a "no-show scenario" and then there is the power of this group.

I wanted to ask: Do you know if certain doctrines are at issue with regards to this "civil war" that's going on? If so, is the 1914 doctrine one of those issues? How about the blood issue?

________________________________________________________________________

Seeker4

Attorn wrote early on in this thread:

"I can confirm that there is a whole group of medium to high ranking JWs in NY (Brooklyn & Pat) that could be considered "apostate" since they hold certain "unaccepted" & "inofficial" believes.

"These believes and chronological understandings were delivered to the GB/WD (again) in 2001 on their request through an envoy. The material was "classified" and filed away but out of the initial cirlce of brothers who got to read it a kind of "secret" group formed.

Those guys got some kind of consent from GB members (some of whom have already died now) to further study and research the material as long as they would stay faithful to the org. It is possible that this fragile construct recently collapsed...."

In the past, I've known brothers both at Bethel and outside who have been asked to do research for the GB or for the Writing Dept. I was friends for many years with Fred Rusk, and know that he was instrumental as one of the non-GB members who confronted the GB with the need for publicly acknowledging responsibility for the 1975 debacle. It took them five years or so, but the GB finally owned up, at least a little!

I would not be surprised at all to find that a group of highly placed, responsible brothers quietly held what would be considered apostate beliefs if they were to go public with them. A LOT of thinking brothers I knew over the years quietly expressed serious doubts about any number of WTS teachings when they were alone with me and felt safe doing so. There is a shitload of WTS teaching that any thinking brother who did some serious research would see as having ABSOLUTELY NO FOUNDATION.

Again, I also can vouch for attorn that there have been definite schisms in the WTS heirarchy, though for the most part they have been quiet and suppressed.

Perhaps with the passing of the nearly-deified old time GB members these past few years, some of these silent dissenters have felt more confident in speaking out. None of these new GB members seem like scholars or particularly impressive - most seem like unimaginative company men. I had a chance to observe Sam Herd for a while as a DO and Elder's School instructor, and he wasn't all that impressive as a DO or Bethelite.

It's one thing to see the GB as the godlike men we imagined Freddy Franz, Nathan Knoor or others of the old timers were. Those men, espeically Franz with his giant brain and encyclopaedic knowledge of the Bible, were not to be questioned. But now, when a good portion of the GB are 50-something Johnny-come-lately anointed ones and glorified Circuit Overseers with an average knowledge of the Bible and average performance at best in other areas, the glow of being a GB member is really dull right now.

Perhaps as attorn said, this quiet apostate alliance has collapsed by now, but this is worth keeping an eye on.

S4

News from Mother ship

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