Do you have to speak out to be DF for apostacy? (page 2)

Billzfan23

Nope, not one elder even confronted me about it.. They simply did it through happenstance and second hand accounts. Of course, I didn't care at all what their reasons were - I wouldn't give a bucket of horse piss for their future... But, in short - NO - you do not have to speak out.. It's like a lynch mob - they do whatever they want and bandage the proceedings up nicely for the circuit overseer's visit to make it all look official...

oompa

You might as well be playing a Ouji Board during the bookstudy dude!!!! You had better be prepared to avoid answering ANY question at ANY time if you do not want to be branded Apostate. It is "a drawing away" from what you knew, and any A-hole elder for any reason can stick the Apostate label on you with just a few simple answers by you.....It is all up to the particular Elders in your hall, and their IQ's, motives, reasons are as different as the sands of the seas.............................................................shut up...................................oompa

OnTheWayOut

All they need is to hear it from your mouth, or from two others.

I'm worried because I will not lie to elders if they ask me what I think about things (in a shepherding call).

This is the reason I won't permit the shepherding call. Just don't bother to meet with elders.
Don't bother to discuss anything with them. "No thanks" should suffice.

blondie

You don't have to lie, just don't answer or say anything. Or as OTWO says, don't meet with them. Unless they have some proof that you did something to be df'd for, you don't have to meet for a "shepherding" call.

MissingLink

Thanks for the replies guys. I've already graciously turned down two shepherding calls. I guess the best thing is to keep this up. I'm kinda of two minds about the thing though. If they DO meet with me and get me to apostify myself (yes, I made up the word apostify) - I think I might be relieved that at least it's over and maybe the panic attacks will stop. On the other hand, it will be very hard on my family, and I'll miss my friends.

Since it's a one-way ticket I guess for now I'll keep to the shadows. I just wanted to know where I stood. My dad did make me feel more comfortable about talking to the elders. But I suppose he could be mistaken, or perhaps HIS body of elders are just leaning more toward kindness than other elder bodies.

Dismembered

Greetings Missing Link,

"Elders" can and will do anything they want, despite what anyone says. Watchtower has endowed them with the power to do what they want, when, they want. I heard about my announcement through my daughther in law, No one thing from any of those scumbag "elders". They do things according to whatever mood they're in. "Theocratic arrangement" has zilch to do with it. PERIOD..................

Dismembered

Dagney

They can DF you for anything if they want.

My advice is to not meet with them, preferably with a good valid reason...health issues, out of town...anything. On one hand, if they are truly shepherds they are doing the right thing. But the rules have changed now, and you must protect yourself even though their motives may be "pure."

On the other hand, if they are trying to "get you" for some reason, keep control of the situation the best you can.

JK666

DocBob,

You wouldn't by any chance have a copy of that letter, would you? I would love to see it on WTS letterhead!

JK

yknot

You have to stubbornly hold to and speak about the apostasy. Or you can be accused if you support or promote (words or actions) false religions or interfaith activities (this one gives you the chance to bring up the many interfaith associations the WTS has enjoyed under the guise of legality). If someone tries to use the letter DocBob mentions you will need to be able to reference the Flock book.

If push comes to shove and the elders force a confrontation, humbly admit you are having trouble with "running ahead of the organization". You do not want to speak about it and are waiting on Jehovah. This pretty much closes the door, if they persist; keep to the line "waiting on Jehovah". Ask them to pray for you.

The 1991 "Pay Attention to Yourselves and the Flock" (sans handwritten instruction) Elder manual is available at www.watctower.cc , click on the files tabs and you can save the copy to your adobe files.

DT

However. if, after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues to believe the apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the 'slave class,' then appropriate judicial action should be taken.

This sounds like forced conversion, as defined in wikipedia, "A forced conversion is the conversion to a religion or philosophy under duress, with the threatened consequence of earthly penalties or harm. These consequences range from job loss and social isolation to incarceration, torture or death. Typically, such a conversion entails the repudiation of former religious or philosophical convictions.A forced conversion is the conversion to a religion or philosophy under duress, with the threatened consequence of earthly penalties or harm. These consequences range from job loss and social isolation to incarceration, torture or death. Typically, such a conversion entails the repudiation of former religious or philosophical convictions."

You either have to change your belief or face social isolation. This is a clear violation of fundamental human rights.

Do you have to speak out to be DF for apostacy?

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