Well if I'm wrong and atheism is right, then I really havent given up anything in the end. I would just die and that would be it.
I left the JW religion at the time, not knowing if it was the truth or not, not really sure if there was a God. I left because I wanted a normal life, and was willing to chance being destroyed at Armageddon. in order to get it.
I found out later, much to my relief, but still with alot of anger that it was a hoax from day one.
I may not know if there is one true christian religion, but I do know one that isn't and I will warn people about it until the day I die.
I dont dislike all religion, as that pretty much is the norm here in the USA. I do dislike the JW Cult, for all the damage (real damage) not just emotional, that it causes.
I am a Christian, with Baptist beliefs., If I find another Christian religion that I feel is OK, then I have the personal freedom to change to that, with no blackmail from my family--something that I was denied as a JW.
I believe in Jesus Christ, and nothing will ever change that. No atheist, no cult, nothing.
If You Were Wrong About The JWs, Maybe Your Current Beliefs Aren't True
by serotonin_wraith 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Junction-Guy
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destructo-girl
Back then, I expect you thought you were smart. You thought you could tell if you were being lied to. Yet, they got past your mental defenses and sucked you in.
oooh yes, thats me. I don't have the defense of being brought up in the 'truth', I was completely sucked in. It's scary now to think how easily my mind was taken over, and I did think I was smart to be honest.
Mental defenses are now firmly UP and staying like that. I still like studying the bible, strangely, but I know without a doubt that I will never be a Christian again.
Vinny, if these threads are a waste of time to read, why waste your time replying?
I'm a 'poor little atheist' and proud of it.
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dogisgod
Well, I would like to believe in God. A God who makes as much sense as nature, or math, or music theory. I don't find it in ANY religious groups. I find very nice people who believe in some pretty fantastical stuff. I'm not getting any younger and I don't have time to wade thru the dump looking for bits and pieces of shreds of "truth". Isn't that the age old question "what is truth?" You might also ask, "What is reality". Everything is based on personal perception. I think that's how you create another religion. Expand on YOUR truth and YOUR reality and influence others to take that on as theirs and Voila! Another religion. We make our choices out of environment, nuturing and choice. If our environment and nurturing have been directed by other's choices (parental choice, culture, survival, exposure to very different thoughts/cultures etc) then we really aren't in a position to make a decision out of neutrality.
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5go
Our poor little atheists cannot tell the class how all things today; universe, earth and all complex life thereon comes from nothing by nobody.
Yet you believe that idealists from two thousand years ago were right, despite the evidence proving their views of the universe were wrong.
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serotonin_wraith
integ,
How did life start? How did the universe start?
Good questions. Nobody knows. But to say it was an intelligent being doesn't solve the problem. You're left having to explain where the creator came from, and if the creator is eternal, then the universe can be eternal too.
Evolution is natural and blind. There's no higher intelligence needed to explain it. As for the spark of life, it seems odd that a being would start it off, then sit back and watch 99% of all species that evolve go extinct. Looks like half a job. Why can't life have started the same way a hurricane starts? An almighty force with natural origins.
Bottom line though, 'I don't know' doesn't mean 'God did it'. It just means 'I don't know', and why guess until we know? I still think humans have some scientific breakthroughs left in them yet.
Vinny,
No laughing going on here. I would suggest you look up some basic scientific information on cosmology, evolution, etc. Your questions have been answered already. If you want help, get in contact. I'm sorry you find the topic boring, did somebody force you to open it and read it all before making a 23 line reply? I usually just don't bother with topics I find boring.
Junction-Guy,
You use Pascal's Wager. Google it, or have a listen to this if you want to understand why it's not a good thing to use-
http://www.logicallycritical.net/podcast/09%20Pascal's%20Wager.mp3
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5go
You use Pascal's Wager. Google it, or have a listen to this if you want to understand why it's not a good thing to use-
Yes JG, Allah has a special place in hell for infidels like you. So does G-d. So does Hinduism, Shintoism, Taoism, and other Pagan belief systems.
And JG, you will be a tape worm in the next life according to Buddhism, and Hinduism (that of course will be after your soul's purification in hell Hindu of course).
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steve2
Vinny,
Of all the posts in this thread, yours touched me the most. You have gone to great pains to express how boring you find these types of threads. And fair enough too. Just a suggestion, though: why not skip them altogether if they bore you so? It may honestly help you have a much less upsetting day...
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RollerDave
Evolution has no explanation for the subjective, first person experience, it shrugs it's useless shoulders and vanishes.
Evolution also can't explain the existence of moral standards, which exists universally whether you like it or not.
If I punch you in the mouth, which I assure you I am unlikely to do, you would say I shouldn't have done that.
Not 'I don't like that' but that it was wrong of me. This 'should' or 'should not' is a moral judgement that will often make someone act against their very own best interests from a purely Darwinist perspective.
Evolution cannot explain it.
Where did the universe come from?
Scientists postulate a 'big bang' and are of the opinion that not only the universe, but also the laws of physics and time itself also began in that moment in an unimaginable burst of light.
Causation would indicate that since all of these things had a beginning, they had a cause.
If you want to be an atheist, so be it. If you want to be a Darwinist, have at it.
But stop pretending that your choice is the sole choice of reason and logic because it takes as much faith to embrace your godless universe of pure chance that somehow resulted in morality and altruism as it does to accept my belief in a God who has, for reasons of his own made all you see.
Point out inconsistencies in my worldview, I point out inconsistencies in yours, and Kant laughs at both of us from wherever in the Noumenon he went.
We both believe what we want to believe, but deride me as a fool for my faith while disingenuously claiming that you are solely based on reason and you reveal the true insecurity of your position.
Peace out,
RD
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BurnTheShips
But what if I desire God??
I feel thirst, water satisfies it.
I feel hunger, food satisfies it.
I feel arousal, sex satisfies it.
I feel fatigue, sleep satisfies it.
My every desire has a satisfaction. The focus of that satisfaction is something that is. What about yearning for God and union with him? Why would I have a desire that could never be satisfied?
Burn
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5go
Evolution has no explanation for the subjective, first person experience, it shrugs it's useless shoulders and vanishes.
What is the creationist theory on this, oh wait god made it. Great idea but, not testable, hence not provable, hence not scientific.
Evolution also can't explain the existence of moral standards, which exists universally whether you like it or not.
Yes it does quite well because morals evolve over time themselves.
If I punch you in the mouth, which I assure you I am unlikely to do, you would say I shouldn't have done that.
and, so would the policemen but not most Christians because I incited it with my blasphemy.
Not 'I don't like that' but that it was wrong of me. This 'should' or 'should not' is a moral judgement that will often make someone act against their very own best interests from a purely Darwinist perspective.
Evolution cannot explain it.
Read up on the theory of scouting birds they take great risks and a personal loss to aid the flock. Species that have this gene trait tend to have better chance than those that don't.
Where did the universe come from?
The Big Bang according to a theory though I don't agree with it. I agree with the constant universe theory which it to say there was none.
Scientists postulate a 'big bang' and are of the opinion that not only the universe, but also the laws of physics and time itself also began in that moment in an unimaginable burst of light.
This is arguing a lack of imagination on your part. Not mine I don't believe it had a starting point.
Causation would indicate that since all of these things had a beginning, they had a cause.
Yes but the cause is unknown, just saying god did it is just as plausible as saying the invisible pink unicorn did it. The fact there is no evidence is more damning to your case not mine.
If you want to be an atheist, so be it. If you want to be a Darwinist, have at it.
I do because he explains the origin of man better than a two thousand year old story book does.
But stop pretending that your choice is the sole choice of reason and logic because it takes as much faith to embrace your godless universe of pure chance that somehow resulted in morality and altruism as it does to accept my belief in a God who has, for reasons of his own made all you see.
Put up a better working theory than science has and you stop looking like the total blind fool you come off as and I might follow your advise.
Point out inconsistencies in my worldview, I point out inconsistencies in yours, and Kant laughs at both of us from wherever in the Noumenon he went.
I have, and you haven't
We both believe what we want to believe, but deride me as a fool for my faith while disingenuously claiming that you are solely based on reason and you reveal the true insecurity of your position.
Peace out,
RD
That is why early christians called themselves fools for Jesus. They knew that that there was no rational explanation for there faith they didn't need one. I prefer a rational explanation for things.