Husband talking about having kids, reading awake to me, keeps asking ???

by cognac 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    We decided that they can be raised around the truth, but not to strict about it. And they can't get baptised until they know what they are getting involved with and i would make sure to give them all the warnings...

    The WTS puts guilt upon it's members as you have mentioned. He feels guilty that he hasn't
    reached out to be an MS even though he has no real desire to be one. As an MS (or the eventual
    elder) he will change what "we decided" to feelings of guilt and wanting to be a good example to the
    flock. WTS will make him feel guilty that Sally is in cheerleading and Johnny is on the swim team.
    Sally and Johnny need to progress toward baptism to save their everlasting lives, afterall Armageddon
    is imminent.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Maybe the kids thing is his way of upping the ante; i'll see your anti wt stuff, and i'll raise you kids. What motivates him to do that? Reassurance? If so, maybe give it to him in another way. Just guessing.

    S

  • Paralipomenon
    Paralipomenon

    As scully said, kids really complicate matters.

    Like you I drifted along with the witnesses for years for the sake of my wife. I would go to the meetings because it made her happy though inside I really saw them as a huge waste of time. Even after we started our family it was okay. Eventually I had stopped attending other than assemblies and memorials but the real challenge came when our kids started school.

    I remembered how much I stood out as different. How much abuse I took from classmates and how I never really belonged. I did it because my parents believed and I wanted to please them.

    Since I no longer believed, how could I call myself a good parent and allow them to be teased and bullied because I couldn't be bothered make a stand one way or another. The good news was that shortly after making a stand myself, my wife started to research things on her own (unrelated to my arguments) and now we both raise our kids normally.

    I'm still not big on holidays, but the kids just love them.

    The biggest question would be, if you are okay with your children being raised as a witness, do you realize that one day they may be required to shun you because of your beliefs?

    Not worth the risk in my opinion

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    If you do have kids while one or both are in the tower, they are going to hound. If the husband remains in, they will give him the power to yank those kids to the Kingdumb Hells during the boasting session and force them to be raised in the cult. That is "theocraptic headship", and it is truly spouse (and child) abuse. However, they do practice this sort of abuse, and will do everything to force the husband to be ultra-strict with them.

    If you choose to bring them up around the tower and not be strict, Brother Hounder is going to become familiar with your place. He will hound them to give up all the nice things that are "conscience matters", including vacations, music, college, and after-school activities. If just him is in at the time, Brother Hounder will continue hounding him to disregard the wife's opinions about this and forcibly bring them up strict as witlesses. No discretion is allowed there, since the hounders will make sure he is doing so. If he fails, they will take away his "privileges" and even threaten him with reproof for failure to provide spiritually for the children.

    The best you could do is to make sure you are on the same page before having children. Make it clear that, if they are going to become witlesses, it isn't until they have examined the religion from ALL sides. Any material that is critical needs to be examined, since it is necessary to properly integrate before making the decision. Left unchecked, they will hound any children to get baptized at age 6 or shortly after (it is getting worse: back in the 1980s, they were suggesting age 12 and showcasing 6 year olds that got baptized). There is no way any children should become unbaptized publishers before at least 16 years of age and having read Crisis of Conscience and at least two apostate Web sites that are not total collusions of each other, in addition to official material. They should not be allowed to get baptized until at least 18 years old and having read Crisis of Conscience and at least 3 other independent apostate web sites.

    And, if they try to force, coerce, or trick the children into getting baptized before then, you have a clear warning that they are forcing them into a scam. Legitimate offers do not try to foreclose the deal before the people have the chance to read all sides. And, if they had the truth, the apostate web sites and Crisis of Conscience would look like they are nothing more than "Go To Hell" messages while the official site would appear rational. Otherwise, they are hot air. No, you should not let them be tricked into thinking they will be destroyed if Armageddon comes, they reach age 7, and are not yet baptized. That is yet another trick they use to coerce people. Any of those stunts should be grounds for the children to integrate them into their decisions, probably not to get baptized.

    Plus, it should serve as a stimulus for one or both of you to begin a fade; or if family ties permit, possibly when the time is right, to outright leave the scam.

  • feenx
    feenx

    Cognac -

    You've mentioned several times that there are nice things to read from the society. This can be very true. However, with this inner struggle that you have maybe there's a different way to look at things. If you came across an informative, seemingly well thought out and written article by someone who's name you didn't recognize, enjoyed it, and then upon further research found out the writer was in fact a convicted felon and writing from prison...would you still care to read his well presented thoughts? The Watchtower and Awake is essentially the same thing. Though there are no convicted felons on the writing staff or the GB, we all know, at the very least, all the moral crimes they've committed, not to mention all the allegations we've seen on this board. So even if something is presented on a different topic or seems logical, it still has the same source, e.g. the same mental attitude and motivation behind everything that's written.

    Secondly, there are plenty of other wonderful things to read about family and marriage and relationships and love etc. etc. etc. that are out there that both you and your husband can share in. Why limit to yourself to what the WTBS puts out? If these pleasant things to read are something you both truly enjoy, then surely you would want as much as possible. And I promise you, there is a lot more out there that's good to read than the small library the society encourages you to stick to.

    Just some food for thought ;)

  • primitivegenius
    primitivegenius

    wow this is a dangerous situation your venturing into......... shark infested waters and all that

    ok heres how it goes........ the society spends a hell of alot of time carefully crafting their articles...... just so they can HOOK the unwary. so yeah your gonna get a few fluffy articles that arent TO BAD and could even be enjoyable....... problem is that is how they start their indoctrination. they cant say what they truely want because no one in their right mind would want anything to do with it...... so basicly its just watered down poison....... which is still posion.

    there are PLENTY of other publications that are NON jw that have articles that are actually WORTH shareing with your spouse, that arent intended to indoctrinate but just to educate or to bring you closer together, so look out for some of those instead. the fluffy articles in the awake are designed to make you think that the society is innocent... and can be good in some fashion, but you really have to look to the actual bible and how jesus did his teaching......... he didnt try to fool people. true he would use illustrations to get the point across but he didnt carefully calculate silly fluff articles to suck people in......... sure the awake is the lesser of two evils..... but they are still both evil. personally i just about ALWAYS read the awake........ and mostly passed on the watchtower... kept me in line for years.

    the real danger is children, take your time........ seriously. what is gonna happen is if you have children with this dub....... then thats when he starts useing them against you......... and i would say theres a better than 80% chance of that happening....... thats how the jws do it......... they control you through manipulation and guilt. but beyond that..... he is gonna start hateing you.... why? because unless your by his side extolling his virtues at every meeting......... the elders will look at you and say....... hes not qualified to be a ms or and elder because he dosent preside over his own family properly............ cause your not danceing to their tune and saying yes sir to all their cockamamie ideas. so because he will feel that your sabotageing his goals..... even tho you are NOT doing that....... hes gonna start feeling diferently toward you.

    when your eyes get opened to the TRUTH about the so called "one true relgion" its shocking......... and your realizations just grow and grow with time........ so give it some time....... and you will in all likelyhood become like more of us here............. i wont have a *&^%$# *&^%$#@ publication in my house, other than those i can use against them. and my son...... oh my god.... he will never have to listen to their bulls&&&.

    hope things work out postively for yourself........... and again take your time

  • YoursChelbie
    YoursChelbie

    Hi,

    I was married to a JW husband for over a decade and by him I have two beautiful children. Our marriage ended because I could not subject my children to the long, boring assemblies, meetings late at night on school nights, etc. I thought we could agree to disagree. It worked out for just a few years, but when I learned more about the UN issue and the unbiblical-behind-closed-doors judicial meetings to mention a few things he became more invoved in his religion to the point of obsession. When he began to use the big A as a threat to my kids when he found out they went to grandma's for Christmas dinner. That was the last straw. I could not put up with him emotionally threatening my kids. Perhaps you could put off having Children and once he finally sees the truth about the truth then you can think about it. In the meantime give him time to prove his willingness to accept your new decisions.

    --YC

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    I think it boils down to a choice - the society or kids. If you decide it's the WTS, and you go ahead and have kids, be prepared to lose them. It might not happen but it most likely will if you ever decide to leave. Go back and read 'alambs' posts and see what she went through in a JW custody battle. Do a lot of research by reading about how being raised in the Society has affected a lot of JW's. Just as having hubby read the Awake to you makes you all warm and fuzzy - it can be used as a weapon to turn you all cold and nasty if the need arises. sammieswife.

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    cognac wrote: "...asks me the % of how much I want to be in the truth. I told him 50/50."

    There's no such thing as being 50/50 in the "truth." You're either in 100% (and heaven help you if you are), or you're an nonbeliever or worse -- an apostate.


    cognac wrote: "As long as he is willing to listen to what I have to say without being preachy and just trying to get a jw answer, I am willing to keep him happy by supporting him if he wants to be an MS, pioneer, etc."

    JWs have sworn to their god to bring in as many as they can into the "truth." There's no way he will not be "preachy" to you and attempt to pressure you to join the cult.

    As far as his future JW prospects go -- with an nonJW as his girlfriend or wife, he will never be able to attain the "exalted" rank of MS or pioneer. The elders will pressure and lecture him at every turn about his relationship with you, the nonJW. I speak from experience here -- When I was still a JW, I married a nonJW (best decision I ever made), and there was no end to the coldness and cruel treatment I received for it.


    cognac wrote: "So, he's talking about having kids and starts reading that awake on raising kids with me. It was nice to do this and 1/2 of me really likes doing this with him."

    If you have a single shred of compassion in you, do not, I repeat, do not even entertain the idea of having children and raising them as JWs. As nearly everyone on this site can tell you, putting a child through a JW upbringing is torture for the child and will scar him/her for life. I was a JW kid. I know what I'm talking about.

    For your sake, for any future children's sakes, and even for the JW boyfriend's sake, get away from him as fast as you can and never look back. I'm dead serious about this, and it's the best advice you'll ever receive.

  • worldtraveller
    worldtraveller

    Primitive is right about finely crafting articles around their other dogma. Let me give you some random thoughts, please.

    If you decide to have kids, I can guarantee you that he will demand they become baptized as a Witness. That is what he is programmed to do.

    Now last night I watched the Daily Show and Jon had a guest that talked about how to tell the character of an individual and how in the old days it was just what religion you were. In the 21st century people are turning away from that. People are now looking at the "Moral Compass" of an individual. Personally I think that is a much better choice.

    So it seems that there is this theocratic warfare going on in many religions. I was exposed to it recently. I was asked to lie to some institution. I turned it down and realized that in this faith (guess which one) it was not ok to lie, but it is ok to ask someone else to lie on your behalf. That in itself I think is worse than doing your own dirty deed.

    Now combine what I have learned last week to what I have discovered here in the last 6 months, I see a slipery slope here.

    The baptized witness have only one purpose in life-to recruit. More witnesses, more drones to work the streets for free. And for what purpose? Money. Jehovah is a real estate corp. It has nothing to do with salvation. The bible tells you this, and yet the witnesses ignore that part. What worries me the most is that they put the corporation ahead of their spouses and their kids (also known as df and shunning). If you have children and your relationship is all about Jehovah and you are not interested in the cult, you are doomed to be just a slave. If that is ok, then there is nothing to worry about.

    But if you cherish your freedom and independance, you might have a problem. I was never one so my perspective is somewhat slanted, but I believe you have to accept him as he is and you will be assimilated to their lifestyle. You will no longer be able to think for yourself.

    In a marraige, you must be like minded-that is be of the same ideology. If you are at opposite ends, then I would never bring kids into this quagmire. Some here seem to be ok, but most here are living a nightmare.

    Not sure if any of my rambling helps, but I do wish you all the best. My kids are 17 and 12. The 12 year old is driving me nuts! Keeps me on my toes. Good luck to you in your decision.

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