Jesus is the Key (page 4)

tula

Burns....

where is the actual scripture to back it up for the dunk, sprinkle, living water (swimming pool is invalid) and that you must fast for 2 days?

Without the scriptural reference, it still seems to be "man's interpretation" and dictates.

Is there any actual reference of Jesus taking the action of baptising anyone with water? Please describe from scripture the methodology Jesus used.

From what I can see, the word "baptise" seems to take on the connotation like "deputize".

Is there any actual scriptural reference or description of one of the apostles baptizing another person with water?

Surely if it were a matter of such great importance there would be explicit direction of the ritual.

Don't you think?

BurnTheShips

where is the actual scripture to back it up for the dunk, sprinkle, living water (swimming pool is invalid) and that you must fast for 2 days?

You make a good point Tula. Scripture is not explicit on the how--but neither is Scripture intended as a detailed handbook for liturgical practices. Think of this, does the Bible anywhere say that it is the only guide or rule for the Christian faith? The books contained in the NT canon were written to a people that already had a community and a practice. The book came from the Church, not the Church from the book. Most of the letters were addressed to specific churches for specific issues. Only a few of the letters are considered general epistles, to the Christian community as a whole. As for the practice of baptism, we have historical references to the practice. The Didache reference I posted earlier is a first century document, well within the living memory of the Apostles. We have teachings that have been handed down from the Apostles, sacred tradition if you will. In other words, Scripture is not the only source we can avail ourselves of.

Is there any actual reference of Jesus taking the action of baptising anyone with water? Please describe from scripture the methodology Jesus used.

Scripture explicitly states that Jesus himself did not baptize in John 4:2.

Is there any actual scriptural reference or description of one of the apostles baptizing another person with water?
Surely if it were a matter of such great importance there would be explicit direction of the ritual.

There are several references, however all of them were written to simply record that a baptism ocurred, and not to describe how it was done.

Burn

Open mind

Aude Sapere:

Most individual witness *think* they are saved via Jesus, but in actuality, their literature, prayers and doctrines are really not 'Jesus-based.' They are 'Jehovah-based.'

I agree. I just thought of an analogy.

The letter (prayer) is to Jehovah. The postage stamp (Jesus) is slapped on at the last second to make sure it gets to Jehovah.

Sorry, "illustrations" are still hard-wired into my dub-brain. If anyone's writing a talk and needs ideas......ugh.

Never mind.

OM

tula

The letter (prayer) is to Jehovah. The postage stamp (Jesus) is slapped on at the last second to make sure it gets to Jehovah.

Aude....hahahahahaha That is a brilliant analogy! And sometimes, the postage stamp is attached like it's an "afterthought".

Do your prayers seem to come back "insufficient postage"??? (that's a title for another thread! hahahaha you make me laugh.

Burns...

if indeed those writings and dictates of methodology were correct, would that not render as INVALID any baptism in which the participants were not instructed to fast for two days or did not comply?

Also would it not render swimming pool baptisms invalid? And also church baptismal pools which are filled with chlorine water?

Living water must be moving water...such as mikvah, stream, ocean. Lakes and ponds are non moving water. Would that not render lake/pond baptism invalid?

BurnTheShips

if indeed those writings and dictates of methodology were correct, would that not render as INVALID any baptism in which the participants were not instructed to fast for two days or did not comply?
Also would it not render swimming pool baptisms invalid? And also church baptismal pools which are filled with chlorine water?
Living water must be moving water...such as mikvah, stream, ocean. Lakes and ponds are non moving water. Would that not render lake/pond baptism invalid?

The quote from the Didache allows baptism in "other water". Your questions are good ones to think about. I do know that the baptism must be in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. JW baptisms certainly do not comply.

Burn

Zico

"I think you are wrong Zico."

And that is your right tula, but my own experience with different denominational Christians suggests to me your view isn't always the case.

A Christian who thinks his religious beliefs make him better than anyone else, has missed the point, in my opinion. I wouldn't claim to be better than those ones, though. ;)

tula

A Christian who thinks his religious beliefs make him better than anyone else, has missed the point, in my opinion.

I absolutely agree with that.

My point is that it is not a personal issue, but a doctrinal issue.

Otherwise there would be no need for so many different religions each having varied interpretations, viewpoints, and twists on doctrine.

Each religion claims to have "something special" that makes them "closer to God" than the others. (not individual people)

fresia

Are JW's baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit??
Yes.

Nvrgnbk,

They do not use that phrase. They are baptized into "God's spirit-directed organization" (or some phrase similiar to that).

They do baptise in the name of Jehovah Jesus and the Holy spirit, it is not as YOU say, please read what the baptism requirments as posted from th org book.

They add and Do you recongnize that your baptism associates you with Gods spirit directed organization, they say yes, when they acctually get dunked they don't say they are baptised in the org.

tula

Burn said:

But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Does CCJW advise you to fast before baptism?

Is there any way, according to your information on "right way to baptize" to annul your baptism from WTS?

Have any JWs been baptised in stagnant or chlorinated water? Could this be used to negate the baptism?

Have these specific issues been addressed in publications?

nvrgnbk

A Christian who thinks his religious beliefs make him better than anyone else, has missed the point, in my opinion. I wouldn't claim to be better than those ones, though. ;)

LOL

Nice save, zico.

They do baptise in the name of Jehovah Jesus and the Holy spirit,

I agree, fresia.

That's what I said.

it is not as YOU say, please read what the baptism requirments as posted from th org book.

But you just agreed with me.

Jesus is the Key

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