Are you smarter than a grade 8 student from 1895? I think not. (page 3)

Caedes

My dad (class of 55) knew enough to work in a job that would require an "engineer" today. By the time he retired he found he was teaching "engineers" the basics of trig and geometry THEY didnt know how to do. The man has penmanship you could die for....they dont teach that today either.

Then he didn't teach engineers, if you dont know trigonometry and calculus and how to apply it to practical problems then you are not an engineer. Nobody just 'knows' enough to be an engineer, I'm sure your dad was a smart cookie, but to be an engineer requires studying and an in-depth working knowledge of maths, physics, materials and statistics. Whilst I appreciate you have no respect for education and learning or the title of engineer, think of it this way, when I drive over a bridge I want to know that the bridge and car were designed by engineers not by someone claiming just claiming to 'know' that the bridge is strong enough or 'know' that the car's brakes can stop it. In much the same way that I go to a qualified doctor for medical advice I would go to a qualified engineer for advice on designing something to work correctly.

Assuming you are talking about manual engineering drawings when you refer to penmanship, that is not a skill an engineer needs, most engineers would not do their own detail drafting work. The ability to use a 3d modelling package is of more use to an engineer, it is more practical and less time consuming than manual drafting.

Why, if you have a calculator, would you want to do long division? Why not go the whole hog, give them trig tables or a slide rule.

proplog2

Captain Schmideo:
The first thing I thought when I saw this test was HOAX!
It turns out no one has seen an original of this test. The historical society that produced it has only a photo copy.
The photo copy (not the variations passed around the internet) say nothing of its being an 8th grade exam.
It's only purpose was to bad mouth teachers and public education.
People on this board love to engage in half-truths and shoddy evidence. After supposedly being "burned" by JW's don't you think you should expand your investigatory skills to ALL areas instead of focusing so much on JW's.
Look at question 4 in the Math section. Why would an 8th grader need to think in terms of running a school district? Could this really have been a test for a one room schoolmarm?
Did anybody else consider this a possible hoax. Why hasn't this thread gone in THAT direction? Especially after Schmideo posted?
Of course it still may not be a hoax. But it certainly smells like one.

hillbilly

My Dad has taught several engineers how to use a framing square, figure truss loads and design simple metal and wooden structures from common tables... based on what they "learned" those guys couldnt figure it out. Pretty sad when a simple blue collar "mill right" has to explain what a "live load" on a deck is....... (more than once)

When you have to show a college kid how to use the "3,4,5" rule to square an object up you are teachin' trig. Or calculate guy lead and conductor tension on a power line. Us stupid linemen could do it with a spec chart and pocket calculator... the engineer with all sorts of "math" credit couldnt get it right with "soft ware".

I have had to teach "engineers" how to solve simple phase angle problems regarding power transformers. They have the "theory" and after perusing the text they learned what they "know" from I can see how they dont know how to apply what they "learned" to the feild.

I have taught several "engineers" what the north thingy is on a map.. they were insistant that I build a million dollar job on the wrong side of the road. I've had to clear up that SNAFU more than once in 25 years.

I had to find a place to hide $400K of lead covered cable in the system as the "engineer" thought that it was a better choice than the specified standard.

That saved the kids job as the cable was special order. I had to carry that on the books for 2 years to find a home for it.

Today's version of public education is swell if you are raising a nation of cube farmers.

~Hill

hillbilly

http://mcguffeyreaders.com/

hillbilly

If you live in the US our civil infrastructure is so old... it was designed by engineers who could "engineer" things... with a slide rule.

I respect engineers very much, thank you. Today's business keeps "engineers" so busy doing "project managment" they really dont "build" much of anything. I'd figure only the top 5% of recent engineering grads are working on anything "cutting edge". It's just after 30 years (at least in electric construction) I have seen a real decline in what "engineers" produce...

Did ya know that simple "electricians" do over 80% of the actual design work on most commerical buildings?

~Hill

hillbilly

Why, if you have a calculator, would you want to do long division? Why not go the whole hog, give them trig tables or a slide rule

You miss the point.... I had to do remidial instruction on HOW to USE the calcualtor... any problem with these things..."( )" in ...well, it's sad when a high shool grad looks at the aritmetic like a cow who's found a new gate in the fence.

I have had the pleasure of working with several under-30 'carpenters' who didnt know why all those extra little marks were on the tape measure they had with them.

I am not a carpenter by trade... just a high school grad ... but I had to teach the last carpenter crew how to cut a set of rafters on the last job we spec'd.... A simple set of stairs or sawhorses is out of the question now days from what I was told.

~Hill

NewYork44M

2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas ?

Teacher teacher. I know the answer to that.

Global warming. Oh wait, Al Gore invented global warming and he wasn't born yet. Sorry.

hillbilly

about manual engineering drawings when you refer to penmanship, that is not a skill an engineer needs, most engineers would not do their own detail drafting work. The ability to use a 3d modelling package is of more use to an engineer, it is more practical and less time consuming than manual drafting.

CAD drafting and lettering a drawing? NO... ask your local 12 year old to write you a paragraph...then try to read it. There will be no grammar evident, the font will look ancient cave symbols of some sort. Give a kid (up to 30, in my case) someting in "cursive" and you may hear that "we did'nt learn how to read that where I went to school."

~Hill

hillbilly

Why would an 8th grader need to think in terms of running a school district?

A simple Math-ecomomics problem. Back in ancient days, we learned how to calculate interest using the rule of 78....circa 1976, in a little Tennessee Burg. We had to take a class called "Economics"... all about taxes, checkbooks, loans, contracts and such like that. And you had to know some math (or learn to apply what you knew) to pass this STATE required class.

Back in the day...if you wrote a page or two, say, in History class...well, the teacher would mark off points if he couldnt read your handwriting or you coud'nt write good prose.

Maybe todays 8th grader needs to think in terms of what it takes to finance his public education. Any kid who gets socially promoted for NOT doing the work is a thief.

~Hill

edited, as I comes before E

freydi

I'll never forget a line I heard once. I think it was Bill Cosby who said, "I've met a lot awfully smart 8 year olds that turned into awfully stupid teenagers.

PS. My grandfather was one of those who had to quit school in the 8th grade to work on the farm. He wound up running a couple businesses that I know of for 55 years. I wish I had half his smarts. My grandmother was something too. Went back to school in the '50s when she was in her 50's and wound up being a a school teacher for 10 years.

Are you smarter than a grade 8 student from 1895? I think not.

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