Are you smarter than a grade 8 student from 1895? I think not. (page 4)

Caedes

Hillbilly

What you don't seem to understand is that no matter how good an education you have or how experienced an engineer you are, each company is different and uses different terminology. So your dad had to explain some terms that are specific to his job, I have to explain terms to my boss that are specific to the company (he is still a much better engineer than I am). For example live load could mean several things and I have no idea what a framing square is.

I would stand by my comment that your dad was not talking to an engineer if he didn't know what a 3,4,5 triangle is.

Again you talk about very specific examples of problems, a qualified engineer should be capable of calculating the spec tables your lineman uses from scratch, that doesn't mean every newly qualified engineer should be doing it from first principles rather than having someone competent show them how it's done in the field. It's simply a waste of time to do that.

For instance I couldn't program the CNC machines we use in our workshop, at least not in a reasonable timeframe, I leave that to guys who do it full-time.

If you think that a university course simply involves perusing a text then you clearly have never studied at that level.

I think your next problem that you mention is that you are calling it a north thingy, try calling it a compass or failing that a direction arrow. That might help other people understand you.

So you are saying that your problem with engineers is that it is usually a desk job? and?

Of course the majority of engineers work on stuff that isn't cutting edge, I'm not sure what your point is.

And I hate to break it to you but for someone who respects engineers you have in every post so far called them idiots.

Engineers don't build anything, mechanics and technicians are the ones who get their hands dirty.

If by design work you mean installation then yes I did, Why would you want to pay an engineer for a simple installation job when a sparky will do it?

I didn't miss your point, you are now suddenly talking about high school graduates, a high school graduate is not an engineer. That your high school graduates don't know how to use brackets says a lot about high schools but very little about engineers.

So you know how to use a tape measure, congratulations.

You think it some sort of personal failing if a kid can't read your handwriting? Just learn to write clearly and stop moaning, perhaps if you ask your dad he will explain the correct use of the apostrophe, that might help others comprehend your writing. I am hoping that the irony of your diatribe against modern education whilst being incapable of basic punctuation will not escape you.

couldnt read your handwriting or you coud'nt...did'nt

sic

Satanus

For one so qualified, hillbilly has quite a problem w the English language.

S

hillbilly

hillbilly doesnt proof or use apostrophys at JWD

nor do I capitalize correctly on this forum...

~Hill

moshe

Education definitely depends upon the time you are living- take Otzi, the iceman mummy- he lived 5300 years ago. Skills back then consisted of, axe/arrow making, game tracking/snaring, fire building, hut making. For women: they learned- gutting large animals and tanning the hides for clothing and warm bedding, finding edible berries/herbs, cooking food over a fire, etc- Otzi, never did pass Ark building -101

alt

hillbilly

by my comment that your dad was not talking to an engineer if he didn't know what a 3,4,5 triangle is.

the engineer is a grad of Georgia Tech, Mechanical engineering. And I know him...lived next door to him for several years. He did a long term for a major US electronics firm in Asia.

If time and space perimited I could regal you with story after story of how todays educational system leaves everyone ill suited for the things we need to do in todays world.

again...engage a 12 year old in conversation and you are in for a reality check.

~Hill

mkr32208

I will say it again. Eduction standards are no worse now than they were then. In fact they are better in many ways.

Some people just love to wallow in the "my daddy was so much smarter than...." blah blah blah it's just the same old tune...

Quentin

Some people just love to wallow in the "my daddy was so much smarter than.....

Don't wallow in it, but my daddy, with his 6th grade education, was smarter...he too used that prim and proper cursive writting...did most of his "rithmatic" in his head...decimals, fractions....made no difference...

By the 6th grade he was well grounded in the basics...spent the rest of his life gaining "book learning", along with practical experience...."practical experience" being the key, no matter how much "education" you get....daddy was fond of saying he was a "jack of all trades and a master of none"...

Taint no big deal HB, but a rod, also known as a pole, or perch, is 16 and 1/2 feet long...4 rods to a "chain" 66 feet in length, made up of 100 links, each 7.92 in. long. It is indeed one of the most basic of land measurments. Thought I'd through that in for the hell of it...

By the way, I've never seen a set of engineer's plans that didn't have to be "field engineered to make them work. Don't mean engineer's are stupid, just means they don't always get it right...

VM44

Charles Proteus Steinmetz was a mathematician AND a REAL electrical engineer!

He literally wrote the book on Alternating Current Theory!

Theory and calculation of alternating current phenomena (1897)

http://www.archive.org/details/theorycalcalt00steirich

Caedes

Hillbilly,

I was making the point that you are in no position to be criticizing todays educational standards or the ability of 12 year olds to communicate effectively if you don't hold to the same standards yourself. I don't proof read or spell-check my posts either, but then I am not moaning about children's lack of communication skills.

Of course you could actually put your money where your mouth is, and start teaching yourself, if you feel that education standards are so woeful. Mind you, since you have handwriting that would make a doctor blush perhaps a short course on the subject might be in order before you start.

With regards to your engineer friend then perhaps if you had called them standard triangles he might have known what you were referring to. I did standard triangles in primary school (5-10yrs) for goodness sake. Any mechanical engineering course worth the name would have covered some statics problems utilising standard triangles in the first month of the course.

Quentin,

I live about five minutes from the remains of the atmospheric railway built by Isambard Kingdom Brunel, probably the greatest engineer of all time. It was, at the time, a complete disaster both financially and technically.It always makes me think of one of my dad's favourite phrases ' the only people who don't make mistakes don't do anything'

You may also think little of 'book learning' but it is just as important as experience, in fact experience can limit your ability to think outside the constraints of that experience. Sometimes you need to have somebody look at what you do and ask stupid questions because the answer we've always done it like this is more often than not, inadequate. Experience was what kept my firm using a hideously expensive over-specced component for the last ten years, book learning and software was what kept us competitive.

Quentin

You may also think little of 'book learning'

Now where did you get that?....my father read everything he could get his hands on...then applied that knowledge in a practical way...far as I'm concerned education starts in the books....how you apply that is what counts...some are all book learning....

Are you smarter than a grade 8 student from 1895? I think not.

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