Question about Accuracy & Persuasion (page 2)

sf

Haha, I don't owe any of you explanations to the opinions I conclude fo myself. Duh.

sKally

No offense, but you are acting really weird. You asked me a question and I answered it. No, you don't OWE me any explanation. But I'd like an answer to my question too. What have I done to offend you so much?

sf

I can't quite put my finger on it, it's a hunch, an intuition I get.

sKally, weird-ass klass

Frenchy

troubled:
I think the answer lies in the wording of your quote: "there is a particular time when people are most motivated to be accurate -"

There is a time when people are "most motivated" or have the greatest tendancy toward making a decision. That does not mean that once a decision is reached that it can and is never dropped or modified. I am a remodeler by trade and decisions have to be made at the beginning of a project that are sometimes reversed because of unforseeable circumstances once actual construction commences. One can make a decision and continue to check that decision as facts accumulate and are analyzed.

I've said this before and I say again: The truth has nothing to fear from scrutiny because it is vindicated by it. Only the false fears the light of examination because it is condemned by it.

It is possible, for the most part, to keep an open mind but it takes conscious effort to keep the door open.

-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

sleepy

I also think it is a matter of learning reasoning skills.
Its not impossible and some of the evidence that we can do so is the amount of technology we have today that came about by logical investigation.
In can be hard though to recognise when we are being biased and it doesn't help that we can only view the universe through our minds which we dont have full control over.

I think it is a mistake to come to a conclution on something and to there after view the wolrd in respect to our assumed viewpoint .We must always question what we think and try to be dispassionate about our reasoning.

An example of how many try to use logic over emotion is of parents.
It is possible for a loving parent to punish their child even though they hate to do so ,( you dont usually get as great an emotional response when thinking of future beifits as compared to imediate benifits) if it is for the eventual good of the child .
This shows how humans can fight an emotional responce and replace it with a logical one.

I feel that there is a reality idependent of how we view the world which stands true whether we know it or are unawre of what the reality is.
So JW's are right or they are wrong.
The reality stands independant of how any ex-JW's or JW feel about it.
Logic and correct knowlegde I hope would lead us to the right conclustion if we can make it stand clear of our emotions.( of course our emotions aren't always wrong they just tend to be selfish and a trifle misleading at times)
With the idea of ex-jw viewing negatives , JW's possitive I feel its the EX's who have more to lose in giving up the JW life than sticking with it.
You lose the hope of everlasting life ,friends and family. So for most to make that decision is a fight against emotion.
Of course you hope to gain also freedom etc but I feel most would trade this with livingforever happily with friends and family.
So even though you give up family and friends to become a JW it is with a much greater hope in view.
Where as people like me feel that eventually the future holds death as its end .
I know which one i prefer ,and I know which conclustion seems according to my current knowledge (always subject to alteration should the need arise)correct.

Grout

Easy answer: THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

Real science is basically about repeatable measurements of objective facts being the only reliable indication of truth. As Heinlein wrote: "what are the facts, and to how many decimal places?"

troubled

sf,

Oh brother. I guess we're back to the same "You're a troll; you're not a troll" thing. My posts make you "uncomfortable," you have an "intuition," you "can't put your finger on it," WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought this was a place where people can post and be heard. Not be attacked. Not be condemned. WELL, I SURE DON'T SEE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every stinking time I get on this forum and raise a good question or try to figure something out, somebody comes up with this same stupid troll crap.

I mean, how many of you are there out there who think I'm a troll? And just why do I intimidate you so much? You guys drive me crazy! Maybe you're the ones with mental illness (PARANOIA).

To the ones here who have treated me good, I'm sorry. But anymore, every time I come to this discussion board, I end up having to defend myself, explain my motives, and I leave feeling like total crap! I don't need that!

Yeah, I'm the first to admit that JWs have problems. The elders and others in the congregation haven't always been there for me or my husband. But no one in the Hall has ever treated me like Dungbeetle, sf, Messenger, and Hawkaw have. Even as unhappy as I've been at the Hall lately, I'm happier there than I am here.

It just isn't worth it. I can do my research alone. I have enough problems in my life without putting up with more crap. I need a little happiness in my life and I'm not finding it here.

Larc and Seeker, if you want to give me your email address, maybe I will contact you one day. But if not, that's OK too. Don't feel obligated. But I've come and gone from this board 3 times and given it my best. I'm sick of trying. I'm outta here. And I will not be back.

Lionel_P_Hartley

troubled,

A logic class might help. The problem is that one has to be genuinely committed to unlearning the almost automatic thought processes that years in the org. inculcates. Sometimes a shock to one's reality is needed, otherwise it is just a really long process. Really, only the individual can do what is necessary to find the truth.

lionel

troubled

sf,
Oh brother. I guess we're back to the same "You're a troll; you're not a troll" thing. My posts make you "uncomfortable," you have an "intuition," you "can't put your finger on it," WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought this was a place where people can post and be heard. Not be attacked. Not be condemned. WELL, I SURE DON'T SEE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every stinking time I get on this forum and raise a good question or try to figure something out, somebody comes up with this same stupid troll crap.

I mean, how many of you are there out there who think I'm a troll? And just why do I intimidate you so much? You guys drive me crazy! Maybe you're the ones with mental illness (PARANOIA).

To the ones here who have treated me good, I'm sorry. But anymore, every time I come to this discussion board, I end up having to defend myself, explain my motives, and I leave feeling like total crap! I don't need that!

Yeah, I'm the first to admit that JWs have problems. The elders and others in the congregation haven't always been there for me or my husband. But no one in the Hall has ever treated me like Dungbeetle, sf, Messenger, and Hawkaw have. Even as unhappy as I've been at the Hall lately, I'm happier there than I am here.

It just isn't worth it. I can do my research alone. I have enough problems in my life without putting up with more crap. I need a little happiness in my life and I'm not finding it here.

Larc and Seeker, if you want to give me your email address, maybe I will contact you one day. But if not, that's OK too. Don't feel obligated. But I've come and gone from this board 3 times and given it my best. I'm sick of trying. I'm outta here. And I will not be back.

larc

Troubled,

If you look under my name, there is a yellow box. My email address is there. Email me any time. Regarding, staying or going, I would recommend you stay and ignore the few people who give you problems. They are in the minority.

Regarding sf, I have my run ins with her myself. I one case, I gave strong evidence that she made an incorrect conclusion. She responded to me in much the same she did to you - she didn't have to explain her reasons, and it was intuition. Both of these replys are cop outs. Sf is short on reasoning and logic, one of the topics of this thread.

Question about Accuracy & Persuasion

-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

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