Reasons to Quit

by Frenchy 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • Frenchy
    Frenchy

    -Some of you might recognize that caption as the title to one of Merle and Willie's biggest hits but this is not about drugs and alcohol but about something many of us here hold in common.

    I have read many reasons stated here for those who have left the organization either formally (through df'ing or da'ing) and those that are still technically in but mentally out. Some (quite a few as I expected) have left to pursue lifestyles inconsistent with teachings which they evidently once held dear (they were questioned about those beliefs prior to baptism) but have now abandoned. What I was surprised to learn was the number that left because of the way they were treated by the congregation. Some are angry at having been called to account for certain actions of theirs but the larger number consists of people who are more hurt than angry at the treatment received by those professing to have their interests at heart.

    For a long time I attended a congregation that was ‘ruled’ by men who were somewhat self-righteous and very unfair in their dealings with those who were not in their favor. I chalked this up as human imperfection and let it go at that. Later a congregation was formed in my home town and again the elders there seemed to have double standards. (Their children were very unruly and they covered up their misbehavior) Again I chalked this up as nothing more than those men being human. Later that crowd was weeded out and I think we had a very good congregation after that. I still love them dearly. (Sure there are a couple that are trouble makers but that will be found everywere, alas! Even on this board!)

    What caused me to step aside? It’s not a simple matter for me. Sure, I didn’t like the politicking and favoritism on the circuit level. This led me to conclude that it was also there at the district, branch, and headquarters level as well, and like the faults of the congregation, I attributed that to the men just being human. What bothered me was the denial that it existed. Is this a minor point? It’s not with me. I think the latter is the greater of the two sins.

    Another factor (one shared by several, if not many, here) had to do with doctrinal matters. It was becoming obvious that a lot of the ‘revealed truths’ were nothing more than guesswork, and bad guesswork at that. Again, I would be able to attribute this to human imperfection if only those making the mistakes would own up to the errors as such. But there were no such admissions. I came to the realization that more effort was being spent on their image (the perception that they have of themselves and that perpetrated upon the rank and file) than on the ‘truths’ they were purporting to disseminate. Human error is forgivable both by God and man so I cannot but ask: Why not admit it if you’re wrong? One of my daughters told me once after she was grown and married that one of the things that endeared her to me was the fact that on those occasions where I was wrong, I admitted it to them (the children). Why would a person or an organization, knowing full well that they were mistaken, not own up to the error and admit it straightforwardly instead of resorting to the fabrication of the nebulous term “increasing light”? To err is human, to deny the error is silliness.

    Another thing that became very silly to me is something mentioned by YoYoMama in Scumgrief’s thread: active and happy jw. YoYoMama said: “Will millions even billions perish? Yes Who's fault is it that they will perish? Their own. Has Jehovah given them the opportunity to change? we're still in this old system aren't we?” He is repeating what has been instilled in JW’s for a very long time now, namely that the reason this system goes on is to allow as many people as possible the opportunity to ‘accept the truth’ and thus be saved. Namewithheld made an interesting remark concerning this: “For every ten years that this system goes on to allow that many more to 'hear the good news' that many more are born. It's a never ending process.” This is my problem exactly with the aforementioned teaching or doctrine (if you can call it a doctrine). The reasoning that the Society is promoting is absolutely absurd as is well pointed out by Namewithheld. That sort of reasoning would lead one to believe that since the longer God allows this world to continue as it is, the more loving he is and so the question: Why not just let it go on forever??? Actually a point that is never brought up at the meetings is: Suppose God would have ended this twenty years ago then all the people born since that time would all be in the New World and would be in a far better position to be converted. Why is that never mentioned…ever?

    Another point which was brought up on that same thread was another problem for me which had developed over the years. It’s closely related to the above mentioned concept of saving people out of this world. Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught (and therefore believe) that a person must become a witness to be saved. (Hey, it’s true and every witness knows that regardless of what the PR sight is trying to sell to the public.) The argument is made that God will be fully justified in destroying everyone not a witness on the basis of their having been given an opportunity (via the preaching work) to accept the ‘truth’ (body of current teachings of the Society) and become a baptized witness. The whole purpose of the preaching work is that of proselytizing, (although this is denied, no reasonable person familiar with the work will deny that) of conversion and baptism. The rationalization is that those who refuse the ‘message’ fully deserve to perish for not taking advantage of the ‘opportunity’ they were afforded, they denied the provision made by God for their salvation. That’s the reasoning. What the great majority (no percentages here!) of JW’s fail to realize is the point I am now getting to that was brought out on this thread, namely this: ““Just cause JWs are the center of your world (and many x-JWs too) doesn't mean the average person has ANY idea about them.” –NameWithheld I think this is an excellent point. Can you truly say that these people were rejecting God when they were rejecting the witnesses? All those people who ‘had a chance’ did not view the witnesses in any different light than they do the Mormons or the Moonies or any other ‘odd ball religion’. JW’s fail to realize that the world about them does not share the perception they have of themselves.

    Quoting Scum: “DIM: Being part of a religion, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, does not guarantee that you will be saved. This is on an individual basis, but to be saved we must be doing God's will as the Bible says.” Namewithheld says: “Perfect example of cognitive dissidence. He can't justify saying YES, only JWs will be saved (even though that is what he's taught and must believe for his own sanity), but if he says NO, more than JWs will be saved, then he has just admitted to himself that maybe he doesn't need to BE a JW after all. And that's not possible.” Make sense? JW’s hesitate in telling people that only they will be saved because it makes them appear bigoted and self-righteous and generally turns people’s stomachs. They also hesitate in telling them that others besides themselves will be saved because then it diminishes their importance in their eyes. Quite a quandary. That was another issue that gravely disturbed me.

    Finally (the last one I’ll mention here and now…) there’s the issue of why God has allowed wickedness to continue for so long. One (the most ridiculous) reason given is that so that more people will have an opportunity to be saved. As was brought out in that same aforementioned thread, there are more people being born every day than are being ‘saved’ as JW’s so that’s no progress at all but rather a losing battle. It’s like bailing out a quart of water a minute when the boat is taking on water at the rate of a gallon a minute. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that, in time, the boat will sink. It’s a losing battle. That reasoning is absurd but it makes good sense to the rank and file. Why? Perhaps the answer lies in a remark by Mazza: “--I was happy as a JW - when that was all I knew.” A profound observation.

    ...And so like the words of the song after which this thread is named says: "And the reasons for quitting, getting bigger each day."

    I sincerely hope that Scum and YoYoMama (and others like them) continue to post and interact here on this forum. I have been in their shoes in that I once wore the green glasses that are handed out to all who enter Emerald City. I was enthralled as I watched the wizard produce fire and smoke and speak to me in a great, booming voice. I even had a small part in the show. One day, however, a fateful wind blew back the curtain and I saw the levers that operated the miracles on the stage and from that point on the show never again held the fascination it once had for me. I do so wish that it had been real.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • 4horsemen
    4horsemen

    Frenchy,

    An excellent post. That is all I can say. Your sentiments echo my own.The only thing I can add is saying related to balance which goes:

    If you are what you do, then when you dont, you aren't. Anything (not just be a JW) which totally dominates your way of life to a degree where it forges a lifestyle to the exclusion of living, ultimately, I think is not healthy.

    Now, I wasnt there, and dont know if Jesus had a choice in the matter but he took such ownership in his occupation, that he was known as "the Carpenter". Think he did crappy work?

    In short Jesus, (and a few of us) are whole souled in all that they do, not just focused in a extremely narrow aspect of their lives. The WTS IMHO encourages such extremes to the (almost) total dereliction of other facets of life.

    "We fight so that we may keep alive. But dont forget to live." -G. Ashe

  • JBean
    JBean

    Frenchy... I agree. Your last sentence: "I do so wish that it had been real"... brought a lump to my throat. Jbean

  • Makena1
    Makena1

    Frenchy - great post. Need to read it again to let it all sink in.

    This statement was particularly telling for me: "One of my daughters told me once after she was grown and married that one of the things that endeared her to me was the fact that on those occasions where I was wrong, I admitted it to them (the children). Why would a person or an organization, knowing full well that they were mistaken, not own up to the error and admit it straightforwardly instead of resorting to the fabrication of the nebulous term “increasing light”? To err is human, to deny the error is silliness."

    The inability of my father to ever admit that he was wrong is one of the prime reasons we no longer speak - and that was while I still served as an elder. Its possible that he does not even know that I no longer consider myself a witness.

    Admitting that we make mistakes, even to our children does NOT lessen the authority of our voice - it enhances and endears. Why can't the WTBS understand this simple but profound concept.

    Does anyone remember reading the apology from the church that Armstrong founded as Ray Franz quoted in COC? If I had been a member of that group and contemplating leaving - I would have stuck around a bit longer to see if they were true to their word of apology.

    I would go a little farther and say -"To err is human, to deny the error is criminal."

    Makena

    Between believing a thing and thinking you know is only a small step and quickly taken - Mark Twain

  • NameWithheld
    NameWithheld

    Hear hear! "I do so wish that it had been real... "

    That would be nice, and it's a beautiful thought. One reason I struggle with never trying to begin the attempt at pulling my mother out, she's happy where she is (at least she thinks she is, even though she lives in miserable conditions) I think the removal process would be more painful now as old age approaches. The only reason she can pretend to be happy is that "Jehovah will solve all the problems any day now". A sad way of life to observe for those of us who have seen the levers behind the stage. But for those still wearing the emerald glasses I guess it offers something to live for.

    Everytime I hear JWs begin the typical "Won't it be so great when .." I cringe. But you can't poo-poo on their parade lightly. I usually answer "Yes, that would be nice". (Although I don't think the process of sifting through the 6 billion bodies to get that 'new house' or 'good health' or whatever would be all that wonderful...)

  • Bang
    Bang

    << I do so wish that it had been real. >>

    Don't be sad, He is real, it's just that the WT society stumbled across something without holding the key, and fears take hold, as you know. Seek Him in the poor, He's there waiting, meek, like His Father, not haughty. You know before they received the Spirit into their 'house', it was asked of the apostles, "why do you stand looking into heaven?"

    There's a parable I particularly like that shows how we are to pray and not lose heart. <"In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor regarded man; and there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, 'Vindicate me against my adversary.' For a while he refused; but afterward he said to himself, 'Though I neither fear God nor regard man, yet because this widow bothers me, I will vindicate her, or she will wear me out by her continual coming.'" And the Lord said, "Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?">

    The teaching is often viewed as vengeance and all the badies copping it; but certain fears alter our perception of God - He is kind and meek.
    "A certain person, proud, had a conscience (unjust judge) that didn't really think about God or have regard for others. His soul (the widow), once the spouse of the Holy Spirit, would prompt his conscience to subdue his flesh (the adversary), and it was due to the bother of his soul that he did. Now, if your own conscience is prepared to help you out by continual asking, how much more is God going to help you do what is right if you ask Him, and quickly.
    Nevertheless, will He find faith?

    Bang

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Always a pleasure to read your comments Frenchy.

    I noticed these things you mentioned for years while I was in the WT and just kept sweeping them to the back corners of my mind. These things never fit and never made sense, but like you, I wanted to make it work.

    Like Makena I was bothered by your use of the word "silliness" in describing the WT glossing over their errors. I cannot call it anything but arrogance, and it is their arrogance I am having such a hard time excusing.

    Path

  • teejay
    teejay

    Excellent post.

  • serenaj92
    serenaj92

    I wish it were real too. But something so hurtful to so many can't be good. I wish I could get over the hurt of realizing they weren't as loving as they once promised me they would be.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    I have been in their shoes in that I once wore the green glasses that are handed out to all who enter Emerald City. I was enthralled as I watched the wizard produce fire and smoke and speak to me in a great, booming voice. I even had a small part in the show. One day, however, a fateful wind blew back the curtain and I saw the levers that operated the miracles on the stage and from that point on the show never again held the fascination it once had for me. I do so wish that it had been real.

    I've had that feeling twice. Once in regards to JW-dom, and once in regards to the Bible having anything at all to do with God. Both times resulted in a feeling of freedom, peace, and the solid footing of reality.

    And yet, I am honest when I say that a part of me wishes it had been real.

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