Premonitions and Prayer - Explained!

by Seeker4 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  journey-on

  Seeker4...well said. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen (as they say). I think the reason some

  people may be contradictory of your style, is because you come off like you have the Truth and everybody else

  is disillusioned. It reeks of JWism to some folks. I just think you are one of those people who aren't able to

  "see" certain things and because of it, you label everybody that can with words like "fuzzy thinkers", new agers,

  misguided this or that. It's all okay. You labelled yourself, as well, quite aptly, I might add. We are all at various

  places on a path toward maturity. Sometimes we go backwards, or stagnate, or zig-zag, or fall off. But the path

  is there and we are all headed down it, whether we recognize it or not.
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  Sirona

  S4

  There are experiments involving certain types of extra sensory perception which have produced scientifically significant results. So your statement that there is no proof isn't accurate in my opinion.

  There are scientifically accepted ideas around today which are accepted because they fit with scientists' world views and which have not been replicated that many times. Contrast that with replicated experiments which show that human beings can sense things beyond normal senses and everyone demands countless replication and pathetically stringent controls.

  So it is my opinion that you are wrong. Science has proven that sometimes human beings are able to perceive things outside of our "normal" senses. They just don't know how the information is being conveyed.

  Sirona
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  Robert7

  So it is my opinion that you are wrong. Science has proven that sometimes human beings are able to perceive things outside of our "normal" senses. They just don't know how the information is being conveyed.

  I think this kind of logic proves the point made by Seeker4. When there is some occurance that cannot be explained, people want to credit gods/spirits/etc. Could be psycological, could be 'vibes', or something yet to be discovered. "I don't know" does not equal "God".
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  Sirona

  Robert

  Did I say it was GOD or SPIRITS?

  I'm saying that there is scientific proof and you come back with that?

  There are experiments which show that human beings can perceive things at a distance (sometimes of miles) which couldn't be conveyed using normal senses. How has that got anything to do with God or Spirits?

  ARGH

  Sirona
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  snowbird

  "I don't know" does not equal "God".

  Neither does "I don't know" rule out God.

  Sylvia
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  Seeker4

  Sirona, I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I would not be surprised if there are yet-to-be-understood ways that people send and receive information, what some people would call a form of ESP. I don't believe it'll prove to be anything supernatural though.
  
  But with regard to your other points about evidence for some forms of ESP, as it says on Wikipedia: "Popular belief in ESP is widespread, but skeptics are still not persuaded that there truly is a sixth sense because of the lack of reliable theories and information. The existence of ESP abilities is highly controversial, and no scientifically conclusive demonstrations of the existence of ESP have been given."
  
  Sorry, that indicates there are no studies with "scientifically significant results" supporting ESP, as you stated. Given time, maybe there will be. You wrote, "...everyone demands countless replication and pathetically stringent controls" - yes, those damn scientists! How dare they! Considering the huge number of charlatans out there claiming to have supernatural powers, it seems a good thing actually to make people prove what they claim.
  
  Journey On: Nice try at a put down there, but just because I say some ideas lack evidence, proof or logic, doesn't mean I can't "see" or understand the idea. Hell, I believed in and used prayer for decades, and my faith in the Bible was based to an extent on the belief that some people could see into the future - thus the title of this thread - "prayers and premonitions."
  
  It was while I WAS a believer in these things that the evidence became overwhelming that there simply was nothing to them. There was nothing to support that these things were in any way what they purport to be. I might be impatient with someone now who tries to convince me that they do work. From my experience, it's like trying to convince someone that the Earth is flat after that person has sailed around the globe. I know what my own experience, and the preponderance of evidence proves. I'm not rejecting these ideas because they're too hard to comprehend.
  
  I also have no belief in a capital T Truth. If there is evidence and proof that prayer and premonitions are more than what I say they are, let's see it.
  
  I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings for me to say, "Hey, there's no evidence to support your beliefs, and they are also illogical." That doesn't in any way mean I'm 'labeling everybody' or that I've got an "I've got the Truth and ONLY I have the truth" JW mindset. Attacking me doesn't make someone else's ideas or beliefs any more logical or fact based.
  
  S4
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  journey-on

  Some ideas may lack evidence, proof, or logic TO YOU, but perhaps to others with a heightened intuitive awareness

  you are like an AM radio that just can't pick up the right signal. Like I said, I don't think there is a sky daddy out there

  in space taking names and kicking butt, but I KNOW there is a force/energy/consciousness that we are able to commune

  with albeit on a limited basis right now. As we evolve physically and spiritually, we will also evolve technologically, and

  perhaps understand better what some of us already intuitively perceive.
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  Seeker4

  It'll be interesting to see how evolution changes some of these things, for sure!
  
  It's my concern, and my experience has often proven this true, that a lot of people who claim "a heightened intuitive awareness" may really just be dealing with a heightened level of self-deception.
  
  A lifetime of dealing with self-proclaimed fortune tellers, card readers, palm readers, clairvoyants, healers, sisters sure they had been raped by a demon, mystics and astrologers has left me quite skeptical. Vermont is a mecca for people claiming heightened awareness. What I have frequently seen is that the mind is hugely capable of deluding itself.
  
  S4
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  journey-on

  S4...like anything else, the charlatans come out of the woodwork and give the real intuitives a bad rap. They

  don't have the spiritual maturity to use it properly, and turn what little they do have into a side show.
• 

  BizzyBee

  I believe in the power of prayer. And Mr. Bee will tell you that I also believe in the power of talking to myself. I also believe in the power of highlighting portions of complex information I'm reading to help me grasp it. I also believe in the power of writing my thoughts down. All of these things can be effective in helping to sort out one's thinking and reach more clarity.

  All but one of these things I actually do.

  But there is nothing supernatural about the end results of any of it. It's Psych 101.