Auld Soul; I have been using a varation of your 1914-1919 /fds arguement for years. and I understand all your points clearly. the problem is I have never met a jw's that can get past these Important points. no matter which way I present them. I make sure I embarrass jw's for knot knowing the HISTORY of 1914-1919 etc. and having never read a wt book from that time. long story short it's like SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL. And i use a shotgun. nice work . john
Dispelling JW Myths: Faithful and Discreet Slave
by AuldSoul 18 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Narkissos
oompa,
The rhetorical structure of the parallel version of the saying in Luke 12:42ff is very similar:
And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and prudent manager whom his master will put in charge of his slaves, to give them their allowance of food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom(ho doulos ekeinos hon) his master will find at work when he arrives. Truly I tell you, he will put that one in charge of all his possessions. But if that slave says (ean de eipè ho doulos ekeinos) says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and if he begins to beat the other slaves, men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour that he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and put him with the unfaithful. That slave who knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know and did what deserved a beating will receive a light beating. From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much has been entrusted, even more will be demanded.
Just like in Matthew what starts as a one-line scenario (the good slave/manager rewarded) breaks into a two-line one with the introduction of the possibility (if) that the "slave/manager" actually behaves poorly. This kind of presentation is a bit odd to us (we would rather introduce two opposite characters, one good, one evil, right from the start) but it is definitely not out of perspective with the looser rhetorical devices of Jewish midrash.
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RollerDave
Such an excellent thread, A topic well covered. Has anyone considered creating a printable tract with these points assembled together next to bullet points for new ones here to refer to? In any case, this one deserves a bump to the top for the ones joining us since Feb. Always a delight. RD
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wobble
I was thinking of posting on this topic for some time, I agree that to put any kind of prophetic interpretation on this parable of the slaves is to go beyond what is written, just as the WTBTS do with other parables, if they needed explaining then our Lord Jesus did so as with the parable of the sower. After all do we look for a "class" that fits the oyster that the pearl of high value came from? or is every character in the good samaritan prophetic? no, it is to teach us who truly is our neighbour.Who truly is "running ahead" by teaching traditions of men as though they are doctrine? Surely it is the WTBTS !
Love to all
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Vanderhoven7
Bookmarked
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GLTirebiter
I consider this part of Matthew's gospel to be one of the series of related teachings in chapters 24 and 25. The other passages (Days of Noah--Mt 24:37-39, one taken and one left--MT24:30-42, the coming of the thief--Mt 24:43-44, the Faithful Servant--MT 24:45-51, the virgins and the lamps--MT 25:1-13, parable of the talents [again discussing a "wise servant"]--MT25:14-30) are on the topic "be faithful, do what is right, because you never know when the time will come." These passages aren't about God appointing somebody else to be "the faithful servant" to rule over us, they are telling us--each and every one of us-- to be like the wise servant.
We may think you have time to make up for it before the master arrives, but we probably won't. The day of reckoning is coming when we least expect it, and in all likelihood that will be long before The Last Day. So we'd better start behaving as if there is no tomorrow, because for any one of us there just might not be a tomorrow.
That makes a lot more sense than contorting one of these passages into a prophecy about a group of middle-aged men living 19 or 20 centuries later!
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WontLeave
@AuldSoul: Nice points and interesting perspective. I've read things that hinted at this, but you really hit them square on. Together, we build each other's insight and understanding. Posts like this are one of the reasons I come here.
@RollerDave: I've been trying to come up with a tract, but brevity is not my strong point. This is my attempt to make a quick read on a similar subject: Do Christians Have Human Leaders? Anyone want to help edit it down to an interest-grabbing tract, feel free.
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cyberguy
AuldSoul,
As Narkissos correctly brings out, there is only one slave in the illustration, but with two potential outcomes. So does the slave represent a class or individuals? This is a critical point for the WT argument to work. It would mean that the one slave (somehow) represents two classes. (This is how Freddie explains it in the 1000 Year Reign book. After explaining that there is only one slave in the illustration, he then fabricates two slave classes from the one slave! Maybe Freddie thought the slave was skitsofrantic!)
Also, where is it said that the slave becomes the master? In fact, the illustration is about a slave that is declared wicked for having rejected his slave status, and doing things that showed not only disrespect for his master, but by willfully abusing his fellow slaves, he vacated his responsibilies as a care giver (i.e., feeding fellow slaves).
On occasion, I’ve questioned JWs as to how many slaves are mentioned in the illustration and most often they say two. Then I've asked them to carefully read it again while considering other translations too. For some, this has opened the door for more extended conversations.
Cyber
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Crisis of Conscience
Bookmarked