Why make prophecies cryptic?

by LtCmd.Lore 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  LtCmd.Lore

  Ok, this thread is NOT about whether or not the Bible prophecies are valid. I just want to know WHY god would inspire a prophecy about a giant tree, bowls of anger, seven headed animals, the moon turning to blood, the sun going dark, the sea turning to blood, everything else turning to blood multiple times.
  Counting things in days when he actually means years, using 'times' which don't meen anything. Symbolizing rulers with trees, horns and mountains.
  Using ONE symbol for multiple things. Sometimes the horsemen are good, sometimes they're bad. Sometimes a white robe meens your bound for heaven, other times it just meens your clean.
  Illustrating the SAME event over and over again in different ways, without specifying that we are backtracking.... Putting a numerical limit on things, like 24 elders, when in fact there can be a lot MORE than 24 of 'em.

  Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to simply say: "John, write this down: "1,914 years after Jesus was born, I'm gonna make him king, and there will be a war in the entire inhabited earth. After that, everyone who doesn't serve me in the way set out in the Bible will die. Everyone who does serve me will be persecuted, but I'll make them live forever on earth.
  Also I'm gonna choose 144,000 people to come to heaven and manage stuff, I'll let them know who they are." Got all that?"

  Why all the symbolism? It just makes it harder to write, translate and understand. Does this god not know how his own creation thinks?

  Lore - w.w.s.d?
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  Leolaia

  In part, I think you have been spoiled by the Society's eisegetical interpretations of the prophetic books, arbitrarily turning almost everything into a symbol without much consistency. Having read a wide range of revelatory and apocalyptic literature, I can see that descriptions of heaven, visions of disaster and calamity, and scenarios of judgment and punishment were not mere symbols of other things. Enoch's and Baruch's descriptions of heaven were intended seriously. The Sibyl's descriptions of war, eschatological upheavals, and worldwide conflagration were intended to be taken as such. It is much the same thing with Revelation. The portents of stars falling from heaven, earthquakes, and other calamities were not symbolic of anything (much less JW proclamations in the 1920s). These things may have symbolic implications and meaning, but that is different from regarding them as only symbols. And then there are cases where the vision is indeed figurative, e.g. the eagle and the man from the sea in 4 Ezra, the animals in the Animal Apocalypse of 1 Enoch, Babylon the Great in Revelation, etc. But here the reference is quite clear either from context (e.g. one just has to know Israelite history to know what the animals represent in the AA), or the author himself explains what the symbol represents, usually with an interpreting angel (as it is in the case of the eagle vision of 4 Ezra, the visions of the ram and he-goat in Daniel, the vision of Babylon the Great in Revelation, etc.).

  As for the cryptic symbolism used in these examples, a clear motive is that many these apocalypses have a political agenda as propaganda -- that was the case with Daniel, the eagle vision of 4 Ezra, the Oracles of Hystaspes (which was forbidden reading in the Roman Empire, punishable by death), Revelation, the Sybilline Oracles, etc. These are books that relate an impending destruction of the present government. As subversive literature, of course they would use symbolism to disguise this message. In other cases, symbolism is used to express deeper mythological echoes or other layers of meaning.
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  Narkissos

  There are a number of reasons for the "cryptic" fashion in some of ("apocalyptical") Jewish and Christian literature. The often-mentioned need for "hiding" the meaning of the text from adversaries, if ever correct, is secondary imo to communication considerations. The cryptic form adds authority to the message. A heavenly or otherwise mysterious, supernatural vision is first described: its meaning remains obscure to the seer; then it is explained to him by some angelic interpreter. This separation of sight and words adds to the sense of revelation (= apocalypse): this cannot be a mere human message. Moreover, the hearer/reader gets the positive feeling of being admitted among the "chosen few" who are privileged to share in secret and saving knowledge.

  But stepping back, it is apparent that the original message was globally clear to its original receivers. All "mysteries" are explained in the text. Where arbitrary explanations are needed (such as in the WT interpretation of Revelation) it's simply because (1) you are not among the addressees of the original message (you live in another context and lack the historical and cultural keys which were the common possession of the writer and his first readers/hearers) and (2) somebody is trying to convey another message to you by arbitrarily reinterpreting the text.
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  IP_SEC

  So only initiates understand the true meaning behind what is said.
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  Narkissos

  LOL, I swear I hadn't read Leolaia's post before sending mine.
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  AllTimeJeff

  This goes back to something I profoundly disagree with in general about religion as it is often taught. (and certainly how I was raised to believe). The vague "symbols" in Revelation, Ezekiel and other "prophetic" books are frequently (mis)used by religous leaders. By their very nature, cryptic statements and visions with scary creatures that supposedly mean something divine can be twisted in the hands of a determined "prophet" to mean whatever the hell they want it to mean. Gilead is a 5 month inodctrination course that totally demonstrates just one religious groups attempt to take a book that is serveral thousand years old and claim it was written only for them. How else could JW's or any other group get away with this if it weren't for the myriad of cryptic statements and other celestial cartoon creatures?

  This so called approach to interpret god trivializes what is essentially the most important thing religion offers: your eternal salvation. Why would any just god (or for that matter, any just religion) choose to hide your salvation behind cartoons? If it is essential that you understand god in a certain way, yet god chosses to hide behind symbolism, how important does that make your salvation to god?

  If I were to try to give you life saving information in the form of a mime, you would rightly be incensed and view me as one who really didn't care about you. If I tried to tell you that you could save your life if you could somehow interpret some literary form I produced, wouldn't you want me to just tell straight out? Why can't "god" do something similar? We have higher standards for our regular every day dealings with our fellow man and women then we do for "god".

  This isn't a "gods ways are higher then mans" premise. This is an outdated superstitous mindset that continues to prey on the weakminded and ill educated. Such superstitious ideas MUST hide behind the cryptic and gray area words that are found in the bible. Under the threat of your eternal life, which no one in this life has ever been able to verify, "god" demands your worship. He demands your loyalty. But he chooses what are essentially cartoons to communicate these things? Foolish. And it is foolish to believe it if you do.
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  LayingLow

  I remember as JW thinking that each facet of symbolism offered in the Bible was somehow necessary for my salvation, and that if I couldn't figure out who the seven headed dragon of Revelation was, then I couldn't have life. I don't wish to reduce the good news, but the believing in Jesus as the Son of God and having love for your fellow man seems to be plainly obvious. They are not hidden behind symbolism, and they are what it says is required for salvation. See 1 John or John 21. Beyond that, accurate interpretation of symbolism would seem beneficial but I can hardly see how it is essential. Therefore, I don't see God as offering salvation through a cartoon or other literary device but showing it plainly to all and allowing greater understanding for those who seek deeper things from his spirit through understanding of prophetic symbolism.
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  JCanon

  10 So the disciples came up and said to him: “Why is it you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” 11 In reply he said: “To YOU it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. 12 For whoever has, more will be given him and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13 This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it; 14 and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, ‘By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see." Matthew 13

  I think that about sums it up...

  JC
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  nvrgnbk

  To YOU it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted

  You really are special, aren't you, JCanon?
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  aSphereisnotaCircle

  Because they are only for people who really love god. And are willing to spend the energy "seeking him out".

  Yeah, thats how I parent my kids. I stay out of their sight and sent them a book of instructions through a mediator. I never speak to them, but they better worship and adore me or I'm gona squash them like bugs.

  I'm the best parent ever, just ask me, that proves it.