Africa is a mess. Johannasburg is an impossible place to live. Home break ins, car robbery, rape, can't trust a taxi. Capetown is better, but then you are stuck there. I almost went to South Africa for work. The company that was bringing us there was to have armed cars meeting the group at the airport & to escort us everywhere we went. When I found out that "rape insurance" was a good idea, I was sure glad I did not get to go. Anyone has "Out of Africa" movie delusions, should read "Dark Star Safari." Skeeter
Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo 73 Replies latest jw friends
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Layla33
Africa is a mess
You know what I have to take exception to that, Africa is a continent and there are actually some pretty nice beautiful countries in Africa, my trip to Ghana was very nice. I also enjoyed Egypt and Seychelles. Someone I work with just spent a two week vacation on the Safara in Africa, and love it so much, she and her husband want to go back for at least a month.
Are you aware how reliant the rest of the world is on Africa? How many natural resources the entire world needs in order for it to survive? Don't make sweeping generalizations on a continent or a people. I have people I work with that come from Russia, Bosnia and other places who have lived with some horrible conditions and I don't even like to hear them do it. Can you even name more than 10 countries in Africa? And you haven't heard about corruption, till you have talked with a Russian. Makes South Africa look like Disneyland.
And no place has the cornerstone on corruption, I could sit here all day and write about the corruption of places like LA and New York, places you can't go after dark or else your life is in danger. People are beat, shot, raped in broad daylight in the United States all the time. Let's keep it real.
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skeeter1
No, I've never been to Africa or on a Safari, but I do read alot. My coworkers went on a Safari. It was beautiful, they reported. They stayed in ultra nice tents, china, steaks served, etc. It was everything a grand cruise could offer. A great show.
One of the books I read on Africa is "Dark Star Safari", Dark Star Safari is a travel diary of a man who, for his 60th birthday, went back to Africa. He, basically, hitchhiked from Egypt to South Africa. He thumbed it, a few trains, a few boats, a few ferries, public buses, and one airplane ride. He writes about the people he met, the towns he passed through, the political history, and the current situation. In his younger days, the author lived in Africa for several years, a Peace Corps volunteer, and stayed on as a professor in Rwanda or Uganda (I can't remember which). But, he also vists his old friends,who all encourage their children to get out of Africa. From the book, it appeared that there was a brain drain as the higher educated people leave the area.
He visited the pyramids, the Nile, and went on non-tourist parts of Egypt. Egypt seemed like a great place to visit. But, he was sidelined there for several weeks, trying to get a Visa into Sudan.
Sudan wasn't so nice. The hitchhiked truck blew the axel in a far away place, stuck for several days in the desert heat. Land mines off the road. Roving bandits with machine guns were known to stop/kill for shoes, etc. If I remember, the truck he hitchhiked on was shot at. He reported the women who were beat openly in the streets of Sudan.
He traveled down Africa, and not in any place you'd visit on a guided tour. He talks about the Aids epidemic/orphans/shanty/border towns, the mass building of coffins, the children, the farming nightmare brought by Zimbabwa's President who uprooted or killed successful farmers to replace the with soldier who don't know how to farm, Lake Victoria's dwindling fish population, the food crisis, the ultra-poor cities, the corrupt government that steals foreign aid to put in Swiss bank accounts, no food/gas in Mozambique, etc.
He talks about the natural resources of Africa. It could easily sustain itself. The people did sustain themselves when they were a hunter-gatherer society (not that long ago). We need to teach them to farm, not give them the money. The author reported an interview with a local farmer - instead of the government giving out fertile seeds....they gave out genetically engineered seeds that produced food...but did not produce fertile seeds in which to replant. We mean well with our charity,but sometimes it doesn't hit the mark. Another example was a beautiful set of housing a church built in Sudan. The church did not consult the people, and made the houses without any place to protect the livestock/goats at night. So, the people would not live there becuase the dogs & hyennas would eat their meat & milk supply.
He was able to be safe, mainly because he spoke a few African languages and he dressed as locals (in charity given clothes). Interestingly, his backpack, which had a few souvenirs, wasn't stolen until Johannesburg hotel check bag. He visited some of the places he had lived and worked. My favorite line in this book is something like,"The best people in Africa are bare assed and barefoot." If you're into Africa, you will enjoy this book. He's a great writer. He even meets a JW taxi driver in South Africa. At the end, he went on a nice, touristy safari in South Africa. He needed pampered after his trip. He writes that the women fell in love with the Safari guides.
I also enjoyed the book "The Fate of Africa: 50 years of Independence". Shows how European rules created a geo-political nightmare by arbitrarily drawing country boundaries 50 years, with no knowledge of the region, religions, or tribes. Goes through each countries fights with political corruption.
The difference between African cities and New York or LA is the "%" of bad-to-good areas. I dare you to walk through 98% of Johanassburg, Sudan, Zimbabwe, or any border town where tourists dare not tread in their Land's End chamo clothes.
No, eastern Europe is no picture either. So, I don't suggest the person who wanted to move out of Africa move to Russia either.
Skeeter
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G Money
Is SA better off with these people having their new found freedoms? Is there more crime now? One must wonder was the new found freedom worth it with all the increases in crime that affect so many people. Is it better to oppress some people for the greater good and security of many or is a free for all and wild crime spree better so that none can say they are being oppressed? So many people around the world are gaining freedom, freedom to be animals.
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Layla33
No offense at all, but you shouldn't comment on a place you have never been. Or maybe you shouldn't comment as an authority on a place you have never been. Anyone can comment on anything, but I just feel your opinion doesn't have much merit.
Dangerous is relative. I have never been a fan of statistical analysis or percentages when it comes to cultures, ethncities, etc. Why? Because they can be skewed, they are not exact and they do not include a lot of different things. Do you understand the world population regarding Africa and the rest of the world? Someone did a great analysis out of 100 people. These people are survivors and they have survived and will continue to survive. I have met African people (East, West, North and South) who would never dream of leaving or live anywhere else. Their blood is in that land, they can trace their families thousands of years.
I have always said when it is all over and the world gets its Karma, there will be insects and the continent of Africa, just as it was in the beginning and that is how it will somehow end or start a new cycle. For all that it has been through, the continent of Africa and its people are resiliant and have withstood the worst of times and the best of time and are still here.
Now I would enjoy a discussion on why western society and its values do not work in Africa, as well as capitalism. I would also enjoy discussing Asian cultures and why culture has to be perserved or else it is a deteriment to the people, as they try to mimic other society's and values, without taking into account their own ways of life. NOW that would be a very interesting topic.
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Layla33
Is SA better off with these people having their new found freedoms? Is there more crime now? One must wonder was the new found freedom worth it with all the increases in crime that affect so many people. Is it better to oppress some people for the greater good and security of many or is a free for all and wild crime spree better so that none can say they are being oppressed? So many people around the world are gaining freedom, freedom to be animals.
Who are these people you are referring to? The freedom of the whites who were empowered killed, raped, beat in the millions, so was that worth it? The natives of the country suffered from this barbarity, so explain to me about crime. Some people? The majority of the people, let's say 80% were opposed and treated like flithy dogs for an elite group to live.
To me animals go out to the world like pack dogs and kill, oppress, rape, bred to rule. Tell me who you think are the animals I am referring because clearly we are talking about two different groups of people. And before you respond, I have my numbers and research to back up the millions of people, entire populations that have been affected by the animalistic behavior I am referring.
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Layla33
A friend of mine that is a foreigner gave me this statement to this subject, I loved it:
Progression by the way of oppressing others, it not progression at all, merely delusions of grandeur. And the oppressor is truly the barbariac animal in desperation for power and control.
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Aliboy
The ignorance, contempt and deep seated hatred for Africans, and all things African as demonstrated by some on this thread would have been run of the mill in the grand scheme of things; except that, at one time or perhaps they still do, the publishers of such posts believed in the Brotherhood of Man. Makes one wonder what they thought the Good News was - and still is all about, including Kingdom Rule. Hmm!
The more things change, the more they remain the same!
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skeeter1
No offense at all, but you shouldn't comment on a place you have never been. Or maybe you shouldn't comment as an authority on a place you have never been. Anyone can comment on anything, but I just feel your opinion doesn't have much merit
I have the right to comment on any place, subject, or idea I wish. And, i put where it I got the information that built my perception, just as you had. So, let each person judge whether or not our ideas have merit. Is reading books or a trip as a tourist a better perception as to what it's like to live in Africa.
For the person who is wanting to move....who got it more right? Layla or Skeeter? Is it a great place to live or not? Is it "safe", have economic potential, a place to raise children, good public schools, good emergency medicine, etc? Do you live in Johannasburg or Cape Town? There's a difference between those two towns.
And Layla, what do you think of the "cure" alot of Africans have for Aids? It's raping a virgin, a toddler, or infant (as in the case of South Africa where our poster wants to leave). Did they discuss this on the safari tour?
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/virgin.htm
HIV/AIDS, the stats, the virgin cure and infant rape
Nearly 60 children are raped every day in South Africa and while experts agree to disagree as to the causes, or whether the pervasive belief in the so-called "Virgin Cure" prevents/cures HIV/Aids is possibly responsible for this deeply disturbing phenomenon, university researcher, Mike Earl-Taylor suggests it could well be a contributing factor, and a major one at that. Moreover, infant rape appears to be unique to South Africa, however, the Virgin Cure is not.If you are sugggesting I do not like black people, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. If you read "Africa: 50 years of Independence", you would see who the author blames alot of the troubles on. It's not the bare assed black man or the poor black woman that lives in the shanty town. It's those who are in power & the European and United States who keeps those in power. We tolerate assholes at the top of government, to oppress the black African and to fill the leader's pesonal bank accounts in Switzerland. It's those in power who are to blame. There is no "deep seated hatred" of black people, white people, green people, etc. But, I do have contempt for corrupt people in power & for radical, religous freaks who want to blow people up.
But, African has blacks, whites, Europeans, Indians, etc. It's no longer 100% black. We are like dogs, fighting over who owns the flea.
That being said, I do not think Robert Modave has any right to murder & slaughter white farmers who own their land. Here are the lucky ones who left with their life. Zimbabwea has no food, but now Zimbea and Nigeria do. Knowledge.
Zimbabwean Farmers Find a New Life in Nigeria
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Ofeibea Quist-Arcton, NPRAlan Jack and Susan McTavish outside their new house in Nigeria. Jack coordinated the move from Zimbabwe.
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Ofeibea Quist-Arcton, NPRFarm 5: The 2,500 acres allocated to Alan Jack in west-central Nigeria.
Morning Edition, March 22, 2006 ยท Forced out of Zimbabwe by President Robert Mugabe's infamous land-reform program, a small group of white farmers is taking advantage of a second chance in Nigeria.
Bukola Saraki, the governor of Kwara State, wooed the white commercial farmers despite some local opposition. He hopes to harness the expertise of the farmers from Zimbabwe to jump-start Nigeria's commercial agricultural sector. Nigeria spends billions annually on food imports.
Farmer Dan Swart says teaching people "the finer points of farming and finance" could "make Nigeria the breadbasket of West Africa."
A first-year yield of 4,000 tons of corn may be "the biggest single yield in Nigeria for the last 40 years," says farmer Alan Jack. He coordinated the move to Kwara state and he's recruiting an additional 40 farmers to join the initial band of 13.
As he prepared to fly to Zimbabwe to recruit more white farmers, Alan Jack said he looked forward to coming back to Nigeria, his new home.
"We're very happy here," he says. "We're back doing what we do best, which is farm... Africa needs more success stories."
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G Money
Whites killing and raping? Is it the whites that are raping 2 year old children now to cure AIDS? Why not go live there, it is a product of liberal thinking, like so many countries going to hell in a handbasket.
Africa is a messed up place, it is a beautiful place with many natural resources but the people over there just cannot rule one another.
It almost seems like Iraq, even under a dictator there was some sort of order. Many black africans cannot get it together as being black isn't enough, it comes down to tribal disputes. Whites don't have that issue.
