Dear NN, Satan is dead but Evil lives on

by unclebruce 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    G'day Nathan,

    I thought your post below very interesting and in order to answer you about my thoughts on Satan and change tack a little, I've raised this to the top. Excuse me, but unlike all the talk about why the watchtower society sucks and what's your favorite toilet paper, myth is a subject I actually get off on. Myth is generally little understood as is its vital role in the shaping of mankinds destiny. Acknowledge it or dwell in the land of the shallow surface reality presented by popular media, mankinds path has, and always will be, controlled by deep and fundamental psychological need.

    This is a very big subject and i'll just touch it lightly here and see what comes. Like my witch comrads and other more rational types, I don't believe in the Christian God, Satan the Devil. (was he an entirely christian construct or was he transfered to Judaism as part of the dualism the Jews adopted prior to returning from Babylonian exile? mm the brain cell containing that info must be out to lunch)

    I do believe in the importance of myth and its power in influencing and to a large extent directing the path of humanity. A good book to start with on the path to understanding on this is the ersoteric and once hard to get, underground classic; 'The Spear of Destiny'* .. quite an eyeopener into the very real but rarely known or understood events behind the rise and fall of early to mid last century fascism. Winston Churchill was surprised, relieved and astonished at the ignorance of the Nuremberg Judges and the way people like Deitric Ekhart were able to evade the jailers and give Himmler his last Satanic rites. (a reverse eucharist in some ways similar to the JW memorial where the emblems of Chist are purposely and deliberately refused) In this very real way the Nazis had the last laugh or at least the final smirk and the world at large had no idea.

    Satan as a distinct personality doesn't exist any more than the easter bunny, Santa Claus or Jesus Christ, but dark, little understood forces certainly do and are apealled to and used in ways of breathtaking simplicity and evil intent by the dregs of insane humanity. The Nazis stand as a classic very real example of this but, just as the emergence of reason as the sole criterion of truth in the west didn't eliminate the religious irrationality of christianity, core evil isn't layed to rest in the battles that rage over this planet from time to time.

    cheers, unclebruce

    PS: Understanding myth has nothing whatsoever to do with belief in fairies, hob gobblins, trolls or demons caste down by angry gods and everything to do with human psychology and it its practical outworkings. Myth can help us face lifes challenges with courage and tremendous strength, it can also be turned upside down by evil men and used to destroy everything that enlightened men and women of goodwill have built, cities, nations even whole races and peoples. We ignore these things at our peril and should apreciate those who shape and explain our myths for our common betterment. Evil men are terrified only by those who can unblinkingly peer back into the depths of thier souls and show thier mastery over the heart of darkness. (one reason why Hitler thought little of Stalin and his Generals but was shaken to the core by the likes of Rudolph Steiner and a number of German Nobles and Poets. By all accounts Hitler only blinked once and that was to Claus Von Straffenberg an amazing German hero and student of Stephan George)

    My prayer:

    Oh Lord Jung wherever you are, come, rise up and help this most ignorant sod of the earth, explain to these people the workings of myth in thier lives and nations. ah men!

    *The spear that suposedly pierced the side of Christ on the cross was used as a powerful talisman by both Constantine and Hitler and now rests back in the display case in the Austrian Museum from where Adolf stole it .. or is that one, as i strongly suspect, the exact replica Himmler and his Thule Society comrads made and used? Some folk might think i'm off my trolley but most people have no idea what the Nazis were up to. (ask someone what religion the Nazis were and wait for the blank looks lol)

  • teejay
    teejay

    Brilliant post, Unk.

    From my earliest contact with you, I always have liked your take on things, the things you have read having given you a peculiar and delightful perspective. To my discredit (credit?) I rarely know any of the people you mention, but fortunately the ideas you offer always have a universal appeal, and having lost my rose-colored glasses since escaping the borg, I usually agree with you. Lord help us both!

    Here's what I think you mean:

    If you can get me to believe in Santa claus, satan the devil, Jesus Christ, hell, even the Boogey Man (or any other 'person' of your making and choosing), or if you can capitalize on the belief I already have, then you have me by the balls, so to speak. You have real control over what I think and therefore and more importantly, what I DO.

    If, on the other hand, I know the truth, that none of the above myth-manufactured personalities actually exist (or ever did), then you hold no mastery over me. Your 'power' is non-existent. It is no more substantial than a puff of smoke, easily blown away.

    Do I get an 'A'?

    peace,
    tj

    p.s. I WOULD like to know (just out of curiosity, since you brought it up) what religion the Nazis were. I always assumed Christian. Based on Himmler's rites, could it have been Satanist?

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Uncle,

    Thanks for posting this.

    In my journey from WT think, I went through several stages. Belief in Jehovah god and the Bible, then to belief in God and portions of the Bible as inspired, then to belief in God (unlike Jehovah of jwdom) and the Bible as a pretty good work of literature..a very limited (Hebrew) view or take on their history/religion.

    After arriving at this latest plane, the discussion of myths and fantasies, are even more interesting to me.

    I think Tj summed up what I got from your post as well. The freedom of thought that comes along with shedding all of the preconceived 'religious' notions and dogma, opens up an entire new way of viewing all cultures past and present.

    Two thumbs up on this one Gallahman!

    Danny

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    We ignore these things at our peril and should apreciate those who shape and explain our myths for our common betterment

    "Shape" as in revise? Or "shape" as in "design", "form", "build"? If the latter, could you give an example of someone who has done this for our betterment?

    Tanks,
    Your best pal Sixy.

  • Thomas Poole
    Thomas Poole

    If one does not seek God, but rather abhors the thought of God, how could they ever expect to find him. From the mouth speaks the heart.

    I perceive this thread to be a soldarity united by mutual ignorance.

    If you have no need to even search for God, you have a God-blank in your spirituality. You have a pseudo god called "yourself," and what you worship is your mind. Your greater love is for yourself only. Next, you have a body which is passing away quickly.

    In your approach to knowledge, your distiny is to "always" never find God or to find goodness, or to find peace, or joy, or love, or understanding.

    Puny mortal that you are; you cannot even stop your own eternal death. You belong only to yourself. What a pity. So as the wind is be the substance of your thoughts, free and reckless.

    One chance is that when God reads your heart you might find his grace.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Oh poo poole,

    You spout off redundant 'religous puffery' just like all the self-righteous 'believe or die' prognosticators of ancient and modern day.

    Your religious mentors have inculcated you very well. May I ask, at what age did your god appoint you as judge and jury? Was it after you attended Sunday School, where the teacher read you the story of god's anger as displayed on the Egyptian's, did you revel in all the plauges, culminating in the the 'death of all the firstborn' of that nation?

    Or perhaps you got religion later in life. Maybe you were saved out of drug abuse, alcoholism, or some other debauched form of life? Huh? Did I hit it right on?

    Because no matter how you excuse yourself for writing such drivel as above, you have no idea what your talking about.

    You just confirm that like all the rest of the fundies (for any god) that come here, you are shallow, no very shallow, to take it upon yourself to speak or even infer to speak for God Almighty.

    You have no personal knowledge of the standing of anyone, before God.

    So like anyother fool, with a big mouth, take your word's and eat them. Because you are the only one that is in the least impressed.

    With all DUE respect.

    DannyBear

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    g'day TJ,

    I enjoyed your tightly worded summary. I'll have to mark your paper B. You perfectly described one aspect of what i was saying but the main point i was trying to drive at is that myth is real. When, during the last few centuries slow relentless irrisistable march of secularism, modern christianity gradually rejected and denyed myth by casting all mysticism aside they devalued religion and like the madman in Neitzki's play mornfully cried out ended up killing God himself.

    It's hard to pinpoint exact events in time that had Europeans lose faith in the traditional Church but the Ottoman conquest of Christian Byzantium in the mid 1400's, the Great Schism, when 3 popes claimed the holy chair, and the liberation and empowerment bought by men of science played key roles. The Iberian explorers had discovered a new world, astronomers were opening up the heavens and new technologies were giving Europeans greater control over thier environment than anyone had achieved before. Where the conservative spirit had taught men and women to stay in carefully defined limits, the new culture of western civilization showed that it was possible to venture beyond the confines of the known world and not only to survuive but prosper.

    Change occured gradually one invention and innovation at a time simultaniously in many different fields with none of them seeming decisive at the time but the cumulative effect was conclusive. The discoveries of pragmatic men of science slowly undermined the old mythical ethos and made an increasing number of people receptive to new ideaas about God, religion, the State and thier place in the world.

    By the time Charles Darwin, a lifetime agnostic, wrote Origin of the Species people were more than ready for the watershed idea that creation is an ongoing natural process with no sky Gods necessary to propell it along.

    cheers, unc, who believes mythical stuff.

    (psst the Nazis religion was satanism, though i've never heard anyone use that expression to explain it and am hesitant to do so myself .. thier beliefs, motives and world view are open for anyone to see if they care to look into the dark side of God, religion and myth. People either write these things off as irrelivent or are too frightened to peer deep into the deep dark truthfull mirror of thier own restless soul .. for me the journey was necessary and very empowering .. people get arround with 'fear no evil' stickers on thier cars but how many really know what true evil is? how many have looked into the eyes of evil, faced its death glare and smiled.)

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Unc, what's to say, but aye! If I had a little more experience than you, I proably could post an intelligent comment in agreement with yours. Thanks for the posts....BTW, what have you been reading that's in accordance with the post?

    Very interesting...thank you.

    ashi

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    g'day dannybear,

    I'm glad you got something out of what i had to say. You and I share a common understanding about ourselves and linking with you on that level has been one of the best things about posting on the net. I know exactly what I believe but it isn't easy putting my core beliefs in words while holding the tangents at bay.

    Far from rejecting spirituality on escaping the Watchtower cult I feel it magnified in me to levels i never knew existed. The WBTS rejection of mystiscsm deminished thier religion to no more than a shell. Russell missed the point, as surely as we missed the meaning of life in all those lectures and meetings we attended.

    Like you i revel in the freedom of true spirituality, devoid of all fanaticism and strife, the need to preach and any of the other crap promoted and sold by the snake oil religions. my deep inner man, my spirit and soul is euphoric in the reality of lifes joys, sorrows and everyday drudgeries. (this sounds so self indulgent but so what .. that's me ;)

    cheers galah on a wire.

    PS: go easy on Thomouse will ya, poor barstards being tormented by christian demons! .. mm how can we help him .. a few more humorous digs at his fundamental beliefs .. buy him a full blown, electro-shock born again exorsism for xmas? ... yeah thats it .. if he goes overboard again I'll give Rev.Dr.Fred Hollingworth a call.

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    g'day 609, (408 here;)

    "Shape" as in revise? Or "shape" as in "design", "form", "build"? If the latter, could you give an example of someone who has done this for our betterment?

    mmm one word can cause sooo much trouble ;) .. Shape as in create. you know, like the apostate Paul created the myth of Jesus (he even admits it by saying he was only interested in promoting jesus risen as Christ not any cult based on the life and times of an interesting man) Like the English created the saviour myths of Alfred and Robin Hood. Like the Americans needed Martin Luther King and Knight John Kennedy of Camelot.

    ***Tanks, Your best pal Sixy.***

    My best pals always have four legs but in your case i'll make an exception. cheers, ;)

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