I'm with MOG, I am bowing out too now. I think we beat this topic to death. Lilly
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 343 Replies latest jw experiences
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mouthy
frank.The "body" is not a complete person by itself. May be not to you !!!!But to me in scripture the "body" is all that believe in God. ( however you veiw him) Jesus is the head we are the body!!!! we are ONE in Christ. Yet we are many
I think my love ,ever since we first met.... You have had a bit of a "oh that woman" about me. I am glad you enjoyed the thread. But I find people are never going to see things YOUR way or MY way. The Holy Spirit will teach whoever wants to learn....Glad you thought my observation laughable.....i think the more we laugh the happier life is...Glad to be of service .
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BurnTheShips
They've hung in there regardless of the fact that they've been bombarded by the majority.
That is a very unfair characterization. I've "hung in there too". After 30 years of enforced belief, I've stepped back with an open mind and changed my beliefs. There is no "bombardment" on this thread. Do you expect those of us who have a different view from yourself to simply keep silent? There is no "us vs them" here. There is a discussion, that is all. I don't have a chip on my shoulder and I am not forcing anyone to agree with me. As for the mockers, what can I do but shrug? It does not negate or affirm the truth value of any statements here.
An explanation of the Trinity requires all sorts of contortions and juxtapositions, and the average person comes away feeling none of it makes any sense at all.
The same is true of the non-trinitarian position, as my previous post makes plain.
Even your illustration would be laughable if you weren't so serious about it. How can you liken 3 human qualities (body, soul and spirit) to 3 divine persons? The "body" is not a complete person by itself. Neither is the "spirit" of a person. Why don't you also mention "mind," "heart" and "ego"? If there were truth in your reasoning, each of us would be at least 6 persons within ourselves, not just three!
Your hard headed literal mindedness is probably from your JW heritage. My comment is that the human being is analogous to the divine Being, not that both are literally the same. Any illustration can be carried to far, to the point of ridiculousness, as you do here.
As far as I know, it has been only the churches that have threatened and actually murdered people because they wouldn't accept this silly doctrine.
Being a former JW, do you seriously think that only trinitarian churches have been responsible for coercive and reprehensible behavior? Really? Are you actually arguing that trinitarian belief actually disposes people to murder? Are you aware of the Arian mobs that murdered Trinitarians when the controversy roiled the Roman Empire? Read and learn.
The Trinity makes no sense at all.
To you. It makes perfect sense to me.
Jesus plainly said that he and the Jews had the correct view of the only God who should be worshiped. (John 4:22)
You carry that text much too far. Jesus made very clear that there would be doctrinal development after his passing under the aegis of the Holy Spirit.
Jews haven't changed their concept of God during all the centuries since then,
Neither have the Jews accepted Christ. What point are you trying to make?
and God Himself has not changed. (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17)
God has not changed, but our understanding of Him has under the action of the Holy Spirit.
Nowhere does the Bible speak of God as "the Holy Three."
The Bible is not the beginning nor the end of divine revelation. It is only a small part. Nowhere in any of its parts does the Bible say that it is the only rule of faith and belief. It does not even say which books within its whole actually belong. The Christian Church defined what composed scripture in the 4th century. The books we have in the Bible were selected out of many books. The Church by this time had clearly defined the identity of Christ, so by your definition, it was already apostate-so how could you trust its canon?
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reniaa
thankyou fjtoth you say words of sense here a list of one God scriptures that trinitarians like to ignore from new testament....
"Seeing it is one God which shall justify" (Romans 3:30).
"There is none other God but one" (I Corinthians 8:4).
"But to us there is but one God, the Father" (I Corinthians 8:6).
"But God is one" (Galatians 3:20).
"One God and Father of all" (Ephesians 4:6).
"For there is one God" (I Timothy 2:5).
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).
Again, the Bible calls God the Holy One (I John 2:20). There is one throne in heaven and One sits upon it (Revelation 4:2).
one is one and God who created the mathematical design of the universe never let 3 = 1.
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fjtoth
Mouthy,
Again you miss the point. Your illustration says "body," "soul," and "spirit" are each a person in themselves. Be honest with yourself. Each is not a complete person. Don't go off on a tangent about Jesus being the Head and we are the body. That has nothing at all to do with your illustration. Or are you saying that persons who don't believe in the Trinity are lacking one or more of these attributes?
There is no way that the Trinity can be explained in logical terms.
And where does this "oh that woman" come from? It seems to me I'm dealing with somebody's persecution complex here. I've never given negative hints to you or anybody about some supposed inferiority or weirdness concerning women. I was happily married to a woman until she died, and I have nothing but respect for women, especially sensible ones. It seems you're taking our disagreement on this topic a bit too personally.
fjtoth
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Witness 007
If you saw a vision of heaven would you see this three in one Trinity God sitting on his throne?,,,,Well check Revalation Eziekiel, and Daniel for 3 different view points.....each one shows the Father sitting on his throne with Jesus by his right hand and wow big suprise the Holy Ghost is on vacation somewhere, does anyone else find this odd? 3 different viewpoints!!
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BurnTheShips
Again Reniaa, you do not understand and repeat whole cloth the JW accusation. Trinitarians are not tritheists. They do not believe in three Gods. The believe in ONE God, not three. The one God exists in three Persons. God is Father, God is Son, God is Holy Spirit. All are God. The one God. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father.
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Witness 007
Burn "we believe in one God not three" like I said who died for our sins for 3 days and was ressurected by God? These blanket statements you make are gibberish to normal people.......like me saying I the father 007 and my dogs are one..yet we are not 3 dogs but only 1, like water, ice and fog...it doesn't make sense just because you SAY it as a formular, doesn't make it so......explain yourself....I and my wife and child are one being....yet we are not 3 but only 1??????????????? How can we function? How can we seperate? How do we interact? Do we vote before making a decision? How can we think? Can we disagree? Can one of us doubt the Father like Jesus did? Don't you mean one as in "a boys club" of three? etc etc etc etc etc. infinity. Soo many questions not one answer.....
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BurnTheShips
Burn "we believe in one God not three" like I said who died for our sins for 3 days and was ressurected by God
Christ went to where the dead were to preach the Gospel. He said that on the third day HE would raise himself up.
John 2:19 "Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."....But the temple he had spoken of was his body."
I think I've said my peace here.
Sincerely,
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Sirona
Reniaa!
I'm so glad you quoted those scriptures!
You say:
thankyou fjtoth you say words of sense here a list of one God scriptures that trinitarians like to ignore from new testament....
"
Seeing it is one God which shall justify" (Romans 3:30).
"There is none other God but one" (I Corinthians 8:4).
"But to us there is but one God, the Father" (I Corinthians 8:6).
"But God is one" (Galatians 3:20).
"One God and Father of all" (Ephesians 4:6).
"For there is one God" (I Timothy 2:5).
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).
Again, the Bible calls God the Holy One (I John 2:20). There is one throne in heaven and One sits upon it (Revelation 4:2).
Now please answer my original question to you, which you failed to answer.
If there is ONE GOD, why do you believe in TWO GODS? (Jehovah God and Jesus god)?
Is Jesus a true god or a false god?
How are you different from trinitarians? You believe in two gods.
JWFacts said: "like trying to reason with a donkey" - well I'd agree with him 100%. If you have no respect for scholars then you might as well go and live in a mud hut with no technology and no medication (without scholars we'd have no technology at all). I suspect you just ignore the scholars when it suits you.
Sirona
