I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God! (page 23)

fjtoth

Burn,

Where does the Bible say "God" humbled himself to become a man? We can get the Bible to say anything we want if we read into it anything we want to believe.

fjtoth

Deputy Dog

Where does the Bible say "God" humbled himself to become a man?

Php 2:5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Messiah Yeshua, 6who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the cross.

Hebrew Names Version

Satanus

Frank

To help you out a bit. In utah, there is an aspen grove made up of 47,000 trees. Yet, it is one organism, the largest living thing on the earth, actually. This is a good illustration of what i was trying to say. 'Course, i know that it's beyond your jw trained, logic based mind to comprehend. But, there (in utah) it is. Read about it http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Homes/1993-04-01/ The-Mother-in-Law-of-Plant-Life.aspx

S

jwfacts

Also I studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the Trinity as the Watchtower claims...........although I still hate the Watchtower society at least I learnt something that wasn't a lie.

Sorry, I have come into this discussion a bit late so have not read everything preceeding. However, your comment is not quite true. In fact, the Trinity brochure is one of the most spurious written by the Watchtower Society, filled with misquotes and inaccurate history. I have been working on a long article about this is your are interested in me emailing it to you.

The Watchtower tells us that the Ante Nicene fathers believed similarly to JW's. Wrong. The AnteNicene Fathers may not have understood the Trinity are preached today, but most said that Jesus was God.

The Watchtower also attempts to pin the Trinity on Constantine, when in reality, the word Trinity was used within 80 years of the Apostles death.

“Also, whereas several Eastern churches were inclined to follow Arius, who denied the Trinity doctrine, Rome quickly adopted this pagan idea of a triune god. On both of these matters, Emperor Constantine came out in favor of Rome. This he did by making a Sunday observance law in 321 C.E. and by imposing the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. He fused apostate Christianity with the pagan Roman cult and made this “universal” or “catholic” form of worship the state religion.” Watchtower 1983 September 15 pp. 7-8

“Another fabrication, concocted centuries later, is the doctrine of the so-called holy Trinity…” Watchtower 2006 December 1 p.6

Secondly, your title contains two slightly different subjects - that you don't believe the Trinity, and you don't think Jesus is God.

There are many Scriptures to call Jesus God. John 1:1 "word was a god". Thomas exclaimation "My Lord and my God". Early Christians had to develop the Trinity or some similar teaching, because monotheistic Jews could not possible worship two Gods - God the Father, and Jesus - hence the concept fusing of the two as a single entity.

Sirona

Reniaa

Sirona I believe jesus is God's son a separate being, I do not believe he is jehovah God,

Can you please actually answer my question?

1. If Jesus is a separate being, is he "a god"? (see John 1.1 and the scripture which the JWs attribute to Jesus calling him "mighty god")

2. Is Jesus a true god or a false god?

Sirona

real one

i stand corrected on page 5 i made the statement that Jesus was not made lower than the angels in Hebrews 1:7, it was stated in Hebrews 2: 9, i guess no one caught because no one corrected me but i did.

lovelylil

Sirona,

Good point. There is only One True God and the WT says Jesus is "a" god, than Jesus either has to be the True God or a False God. The WT cannot have it both ways. Lilly

MOG

The problem I think we are having is that although THERE IS "ONE" GOD, the bible talks about many gods (men, pagan gods), even Satan is called GOD - just not "THE GOD". I still believe in ONE GOD (THE GOD), but Jesus is GOD (in divinity) just in the context of even - and I hate to say this - but SATAN..So I guess, Jesus is "a" GOD to me -if I were ranking them.

Folks - dont beat me up..hahah

jwfacts

the bible talks about many gods

Mog this is the classic Watchtower answer. However, to Jews and Christians, there are not many Gods but only one God. To proclaim anyone other than the true God as God was a sin punishable by death under the Mosaic Law. Therefore the statement by Thomas was blasphemy unless Jesus was in fact God.

MOG

Hey JWFacts

Hmmm..so are you saying the bible DOESNT call men, Jesus, satan GOD??

Do I believe that Thomas called Jesus GOD? Of course I do..afterall John 1:1 calls him GOD (not THE GOD - ho theos - if you were to read the original Greek translation)

Back up the chapter before and what does JESUS say's (this is more important to me than what Thomas says)

John 20:17

Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

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