I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God! (page 4)

MOG

until someone can prove to me several verses that Jesus says he is GOD, and GOD the FATHER says he has A GOD, and that the HOLY SPIRIT is A GOD..I stick to what the Hebrews believed in..ONE GOD

"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).

For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).

"...that the GOD OF OUR LORD Jesus Christ, the FATHER..." (Eph. 1:17).

"The SEVEN Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5) - hmmm..this kills a TRINITY theory...

Why is it that in John 1:1 when taking original GREEK to ENGLISH there are 3 Definite articles for "THE WORD" one DEFINITE article for "THE GOD" and no article for "GOD". Remember that in Greek there is no INDEFINTE article, in English there are 2 "then" and "a"..If you look at the New Testatment you have, do you see the word A? of course, although there is none in Greek - therefore you have to go with the sterling rule of conduct "aesthetics MUST take a back seat to accuracy of meaning IF accuracy of meaning is critical...ESPECIALLY if it affects doctrinal understanding!

If we take the original GREEK to ENGLISH translation of Acts 28:6- same problem with the John 1:1

elegon auton einai qeon (sorry this is a cut and paste)

English word for word

'they were saying he was god'

Now take a look at what the translation in your bible reads

they were saying he was "a" god

Now we know that there is no doctrine in respect to this passage..secondly, its obvious by saying "he was god' in Greek that they were speaking in INDEFINITENESS, where translate over to English we add that 'a' to support this..

BurnTheShips

it seems sometimes that we believe what we want to believe or what sounds good but when it comes to God we must uderstand or try to understand that He is more complicated than we think. The jw have Him pegged or so they think but He is so much more than who they make Him out to be!

Unbelievably, this is one of the most intelligent things ever said on this board.

real one

didnt Burn explain that scripture John 20:17, ok ill try ...Jesus is God by nature. He is not the Father but He is God. not a god...there is only one God

Forscher

Constantine did not rule for the Trinity.

He backed the bishops who claimed that Jesus and the Father are one, that is quite a different thing and the first step on the road to the Trinity. The trinity as we know it was first proposed by three scholar monks from Turkey, now known as the Cappadocian Brothers (I've misspelled the name but it's close enough) in 370 ad. It was rejected by the bishops at large until they realized how useful it really was. Then it was adopted as church doctrine about 380 ad and those who did not accept it were quickly crushed by the then ruling emperor with the exception of those not within the emperor's reach outside Roman empire borders.

I've examined the early church fathers as well and find Witness 007's analysis accurate so far as it goes. The thing to keep in mind that there are some variations even among them. It appears that as pagan trained philosophers came into prominence among Christians, and a clergy class anxious to expand its power arose, simple truth was not enough. In their rush to neo-Platonic style strict monotheism (a la neo-platonic Jewish scholars such as Philo of Alexandria), the exact nature of the relationship between the father and son became problematic. Early Christians seemed to hold the view that God had elevated Jesus to godship, so, strictly speaking, there were now two gods. Some of the earliest church fathers like Justin Martyr seem to hold that view. but such a view is not compatible with a strict monotheism. So there was quite a struggle within the church to come to terms with it.

Forscher

MOG

Real ONE

you are absolutely correct Jesus is GOD but not GOD THE FATHER...nobody is disputing that (I hope not)..even if "THE GOD" was both, show me the 3 in 1..Up until the DUET..the Trinity theory falls apart

have you ever notice that Jesus always talks about GOD THE FATHER relationship, but where in the scriptures does he talk about "GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT". If God the Holy Spirit is GOD, why is it that the HOLY SPIRIT who is the one that conceived Jesus in Mary is not called his father, since he is the supposed GOD that conceived him...

zeroday

ok ill try ...Jesus is God by nature. He is not the Father but He is God. not a god...there is only one God

WELL there you go how can you argue with that reasoning...

BurnTheShips

Ofcourse you do because it's so easy to ignore arguements you can not counter like my John 20:17 scripture...

The way this is commonly understood is that when Jesus took human form, he had two natures. The human and the divine. So, as a human, Jesus could call the Father "his God". Not to mention that you quote from John, which has a very famous introductory verse, says the Word was God. However, in John 1:14 we see that the Word took on human flesh.

In John 5:18 they wanted to stone Jesus because in calling himself the son of God he was making himself equal to God.

In John 8: 48 Jesus says: "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am" Here he calls himself by the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14).His listeners understood exactly what he was claiming about himself.

"So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

BurnTheShips

Let me add that when Thomas realized the man in front of him was the resurrected Jesus he said:

Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou

No one corrected him there.

Also, what kinds of things were the first generations of Christians saying, Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple taught by John:

" Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God"

"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit"

stillajwexelder

I agree. The trinity is the most God-Dishonoring doctrine of all.

I disagree with you. Just because you do not understand the trinity does not mean it is not so So by that logic "Just because you do not understand evolution, does not mean it is not so"

stillajwexelder

by the way - which trinity are we talking about?

Jesus, Joseph and Mary (seriously considered at one time

Isis Osiris and Horus

etc, etc , etc

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

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