As someone once stated, Jesus of Nazareth is either Lord, liar or lunatic.And do you really think "Real One" anyone is going to read all this shit you copied and pasted here...try to come up with an original thought I know it's difficult for you...
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 343 Replies latest jw experiences
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zeroday
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yknot
To be begotten, implies being begat.
Why would God intentionally give us labels as that of Father and Son if he didn't intend for us to relate to them as they are in our own relationships.
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stillajwexelder
Hear Oh Israel - The Lord our God is not one God but Three in One
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Sarah Smiles
I think the best thing for any young exJehovah's Witness is to go and join a church that has most of what you like; education, schools for children, socialization and ignore the trinity subject all together. Leave that one to God!
Right off you will always be different because we have been brain washed to have rebuttals and fight for what you think is right. So far the Jehovah's Witness comparing Jehovah, Holy Spirit, and Jesus with pagan godheads in the Trinity brochure is wrong. For one thing the three are from the Bible and there is no comparison, and to say other churches believe in Trinity they are worshipping a false godhead is wrong!
It is brain washing and there really is not much any of us can do but to join another chuch and ignore the Trinity as a subject. God is more than that one subject!
So what are you going to do believe Jesus is Michael?
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reniaa
I think the best thing for any young exJehovah's Witness is to go and join a church that has most of what you like; education, schools for children, socialization and ignore the trinity subject all together. Leave that one to God!
Right off you will always be different because we have been brain washed to have rebuttals and fight for what you think is right. So far the Jehovah's Witness comparing Jehovah, Holy Spirit, and Jesus with pagan godheads in the Trinity brochure is wrong. For one thing the three are from the Bible and there is no comparison, and to say other churches believe in Trinity they are worshipping a false godhead is wrong!
HI sarah. You do not allow for the fact that people who believe in trinity have been conditioned to it just like young witnesses have been conditioned to their belief, this is a reality I have come to accept as an adult about all religions, But as adults we can look at the evidence and see if the bible supports the trinity.....(we also can check the JW stuff as well and some of that I have clearly said is unbiblical in my opinion)
Personally I think you have to put your mind through scriptural loops becoming intellectually blind to many scriptures and ignore a glaring lack of holy spirit information to allow for the trinity.
But that can be said for a few doctrines.
I will take the bible as authority on the subject and unless I screw my eyes up the trinity just doesn't fit, it isn't even there as a word and erm I noticed no one has mentioned the addition scripture that was added on it centuries later to try and make it fit.
If the first century christians believed in trinity your "accept God is mysterious" argument would be stronger but it's a later adoption by men centuries later brought in for various reasons.
reniaa
( jesus = michael debate is a different doctrine which is a direct Doctrine witnesses brought to the table themselves, unlike the trinity which was taken as I said from earlier Christian beliefs so it has to be judge separately and as part of the JW-teachings)
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Zico
You can believe Jesus is God without believing in the Trinity. Maybe start with that one first? Zeroday, I noticed you never made a response to BurnTheShips about John 20:28, 11 verses after the text you have quoted regularly on this thread, Thomas calls Jesus 'My God'
"Personally I think you have to put your mind through scriptural loops becoming intellectually blind to many scriptures and ignore a glaring lack of holy spirit information to allow for the trinity."
Reniaa, I agree (to an extent) for the Trinity, but not for the deity of Christ. You also have to put your mind through scriptural loops becoming intellectually blind to many scriptures and ignore a glaring lack of ... information to support the Watchtower's position on the nature of Jesus and the Father. -
reniaa
There are a few religions that don't believe in the trinity or only part of it, so if that is the only sticking point for you they might bear some scrutiny :)
Christadelphians - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christadelphians
Unitarians - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarians
Iglesia ni Cristo - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iglesia_ni_Cristo
Oneness Pentecostalism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostals
mormons - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
Unification Church - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church
Obviously a few of these also go on to adopt equally unbiblical teachings even though they have droped whole of trinity or part of it, you would have to judge for yourself, Christadelphians is my personal favourite of this group.
for more historical view of nontrinitariam you can check out....
Arianism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
Catharism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathars
Adoptionism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoptionism - this movement has it's origins right back to NT writers
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MOG
zico,
i agree with you 100% on this..that the JW forget the Diety of Jesus Christ..one thing they forget that he is now the KING in heaven....
"Given to Me [no 1900 years later in 1914ish] was ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON THE EARTH." Matt. 28:19 (appearance to the apostles after his death)
Also in regards to John 20:28
here is a cut and paste in regards to this exaltation by Thomas to Jesus
Christian scholars such as Theodore of Mopsuestia (c.350-428), the Bishop of Mopsuestia, interpreted this verse to not be directed at Jesus but at God "the Father." Thus, it is similar in meaning to our modern exclamations of surprise "My God!" or "My Lord!." In other words, this was an outburst designed to display surprise and disbelief rather than an affirmation that Jesus was in fact God "the Father."
Secondly, the word translated in this verse as "God" is indeed the Greek "Ho theos" (The God), and not "theos" (divine). However, when studying the history of this verse in the ancient Biblical manuscripts from which our modern Bibles have been compiled we find an interesting fact, specifically, that the ancient Biblical manuscripts themselves are not in agreement as to the correct form of this word. For example, the codex Bezae (or codex D) is a fifth century manuscript containing Greek and Latin texts of the Gospels and Acts, which was discovered in the 16th century by Theodore Beza in a monastery in Lyon. The predecessor of the codex Bezae and other church manuscripts do not contain the article "Ho" ("THE") in their text (The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, Bart D. Ehrman, p. 266). What this means is that this verse in it's original form, if it is to be understood to be addressing Jesus (pbuh) himself, only addresses him as "divine" and not as the "Almighty God." Thus, it is similar in meaning to the meaning conveyed when prophet Moses is described as being a "god" in Exodus 7:1 (or when all Jews are described as being "gods" in Psalms 82:6, or when the devil is described as god in 2 Corinthians 4:4), effectively reducing the exclamation of Thomas, if it were indeed directed to Jesus, to "My lord the divine!," or "my divine lord!"
John 20:30-31
If the author of John had recognized Thomas' words to be a testimony that "Jesus is God" and if the author interpreted Jesus' silence to be his approval of this claimed testimony, then John would have written "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Almighty God" and not "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ..." -
real one
john 10:29-30, My Father gave them to me, and he is greater than all others. No one can snatch them from his hands, and i am one with the Father.
John 14:9 Jesus replied: Phillip I have been with you for a long time. Don't you know who I am? If you have seen me, you have seen the father.
zeroday, take your time, you can do it!
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jefferywhat
real one, your wrong again, poor use of scripture. You obviously dont understand what you post.
007, I was born in Aus, spent 90% of my life there!!!! I know your wife keeps busting you on here, just wondering if its because shes going cold at night whilst you warm the key boards!!
And no you dont offend me with this thread, not at all, what ever works for you, personally, I think Im slowly becoming a gnostic, check it out, certainly explains the whole "why does god permit suffering" thing alot better.
You also work out where enoch is, you understand the transfiguration, the third heaven, the creation account, Michael the arch angel, the hierarchy of deity and way more.