burn your Ray Franz books

by edward gentry 37 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  edward gentry

  Went over to a disassociated Witnesses house the other night,
  former org hatchet man,now as violently opposed to the org as he was, once, enslaved by them.
  Hes talkin "Raymond Franz says this...Franz says that" All night.
  It made me sick to my guts.
  Franz was pure borg heirachy, born and bred to power.
  Now hes opposed (if he aint dead by now)and these ex borg mind slaves are still listening to the guy like hes a repository of truth.

  Im not attacking Ray Franz,hes probably a nice guy,Im just floating an idea. What is a free mind?

  Ive got a lot of books on the shelves here about assorted cults,
  the thing is, they are ALL written by people who were connected to the Heirachy of the cult. Sun myung Moons former daughter in law.
  Erica Heftmanns Moonie expose only got published because she used to clean Moons house, so she was in the presence of the guru and all the ex moonie mind slaves can feel his presence when they read Heftmann.

  Mark Breault, former right arm man of David Koresh.Theres another one.
  Everybody who's interested in Koresh ringin him up asking his expert opinion.

  These guys are still borg, just anti borg borg.
  Still makin a living off their former power as slave masters.

  Do your OWN research.

  Just a thought that occurred to me, not an utterance of absolute opinion.
• 

  Bodhisattva

  Before I read CoC and ISoCF, or at least before I decided to read them, reading any books that touched on religion followed one of two paradigms:

  1) When reading Society or Society-approved material, I wanted to agree with it to the point that I would rationalize any logical inconsistencies.

  2) When reading material that might not be Society-approved, I was quick to find fault or to dismiss those few ideas that corresponded with my borg training as coincidence but not justification.

  When reading Ray Franz, my eyes were opened to a lot of things, but what was critically important was that I disagreed with some of his thoughts - and I felt perfectly free to do so. Such freedom of thought is the difference between staying a slave but changing masters - even to an unwilling master, as I suggest Ray is - and gaining true freedom.

  Bodhisattva
• 

  Joyzabel

  Edward gentry,
  Obviously you haven't read Ray's books. They are easy reading and explain alot about the workings of the wtbts. If your friend goes on about his work, it could be that he is happy about someone freeing him from the borg. Like a new jw, its hard to stifle new found knowledge. Ray does not endorse anyone following anything, least of all him. BTW, he is living a quiet, humble life and still does his own bible research for himself and family.
  You are right, do your own researach, but I have gained a wealth of knowlege from others who have done a wonderful job.
  IMHO you need to be less critical about people/things you don't know.
  j2bf
• 

  edward gentry

  well said Bodhisatva

  Im not trying to be nasty to Ray baby here.
  Just floating a thought stream.
  Thats what, hopefully, this site is all about
• 

  edward gentry

  joy to be free.

  Some advise.

  Always get your facts straight before you open your mouth.
  Otherwise you will be publicly embarrassed.
  I have read both Ray Franz books.
• 

  Joyzabel

  So are you upset with Ray's books or your "friend's" reaction to his books?
• 

  VM44

  Ed,

  you make some good points about people doing their own research,
  not relying upon the words of someone else.

  But consider this, the people at the bottom of a cult do not know
  what is going on, or why decisions are being made by the higher ups.
  They do not know the personalities of the ones in charge.

  As an example, we do not have many first hand examples of how
  Rutherford behaved. The only exception is Schnell's book, 30
  Years a Watchtower Slave, and that book is subject certain
  criticism in itself. The only other comments about Rutherford are
  from close associates in the Watchtower, most of them underlings,
  who praise Rutherford up and down as being kindly, having the
  interest of the brothers in mind, etc.

  I think the best thing is for a person to read, read and then read
  some more, then evaluate what he reads to make his own conclusions.

  --VM44
• 

  jst2laws

  Edward,

  Quote: “Franz was pure borg heirachy, born and bred to power.
  Now hes opposed (if he aint dead by now)and these ex borg mind slaves are still listening to the guy like hes a repository of truth.”

  At least you acknowledge “hes probably a nice guy”. That part you got right.
  He was at odds with the GB and thrown out by them because he was NOT “born and bred to power”. He actually had a conscience and in his position faced a “Crisis of Conscience”. He is not dead and is still a nice guy.

  Quote: “These guys are still borg, just anti borg borg.
  Still makin a living off their former power as slave masters…. Do your OWN research.
  Just a thought that occurred to me, not an utterance of absolute opinion."
  Help me understand this. You say “do your own research” and then your say “not an utterance of absolute opinion”. Why would you accuse a good person of “makin a living off their former power as slave masters” as if it is an a fact resulting form you research and then back off from responsibility with not an “absolute opinion”? Is it possible to research a matter to the point of making accusations without even coming to a corresponding opinion?
  I don’t usually talk this way, but I think your research should go a little deeper before you cast doubt on those who sacrifice much for others.
  Jst2laws
• 

  edward gentry

  joy

  I am saying he is still a borg mind slave.

  As for Rays books, I especially like the 3rd chapter of IS of CF
  about how Christianity got turned into a totalitarian pyramid of control in the second century.
  The WT society followed exactly the same pattern.
  But to know that you would have to do your own research thru all the WT ever published, from 1879 forward.
  Dont know whether you have read it but Russells "Scripture studies"
  volume 3 contains very interesting info from page 180 forward on the subject of controlling organizations, which Russell was condemning , by the way, the interesting thing is that, Russells org, after he was dead, initiated ALL the practises he condemned.
  I often wonder... if thereis a hell...is Russell burning?
• 

  Joyzabel

  EG, you are name calling (Ray's a borg mind slave) and not explaining why. Instead you just give details of the wtbts history.