To all Bible believers... and non (page 8)

Robdar

The Bible has some great stories. If read with an open mind, it can lead to much inspiration. The problem isn't the Bible. The problem is the people who choose to interpret it literally.

Reniaa...you said

"I also find in myself a dislike of self made-up Gods of what we want him to be like, usually like ourselves with a lovely way of allowing us to do whatever we want in life, that only seems one step up from atheism.

The bible offers us a real God with all his complexities, I prefer that, until proven otherwise :)"

I agree that we've made up God in our image.... but the statement you've made here, that the Bible offers us a real God.. that's the point of this thread... the Bible isn't offering us a real God at all; spinning a web full of deceit is exactly what the JWs do. The Bible is inaccurate on so many levels it isn't possible to define them all in a thread, I was mentioning a few..

I appreciate you posting, but let's stay on topic.

dawg

Hey jnat, great to hear form you... but the purpose of this discussion isn't to discuss a belief in God, it's that the Bible is ludicrous. But I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts...

dawg

But robdar, that's the point, the people posting here believe it is the word of God, although some may pick and choose, they are defending it.

shamus100

Dawg,

Get yourself some blind faith, for the love of pete.

AGuest

and may you have peace.

If man does not belong to Christ, he suffers due to (1) the sin that is in him (in the form of sickness, aging, and death), and due to the sin that is in the world (in the form of oppression, domination, inequality, crime, etc.).

If man belongs to the Christ, he suffers... for the Christ (in the form of persecution and, for some, murder).

The sufferings of the two, those who belong to Christ and those who don't... is not the same.

I bid you peace.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

dawg

Aguest, you're a good man and I hope all goes well with you today, but you're playing a game of evasiveness with me (probably unintentional) and I must move on...

BurnTheShips

Inkling, that was some post! I'd like to address this part:

If this is in fact not true, if there is no one coming to sweep in and save us from ourselves,
WE need to start fixing us right now. We need to square up to our faults and our messy dark
evolutionary past with all it's animalistic baggage and ask ourselves what we are going to
do to save our species and our planet.
What if sitting around waiting for the return of Christ is accomplishing nothing but dooming
our entire civilization? Are true believing Christians seriously going to be the ones thinking
about what we as a civilization need to be doing to ensure that we are even still alive in
500 years? 1000 years? If Christ is going to come and clean up our mess if we pray and love
and believe hard enough, what is there to be productively terrified of?

No argument there Inkling, and it isn't either or. The JWs would basically say "throw in the towel on 'hober is gonna fix this and we aren't part of this world." Maybe you are looking at this through JW-colored glasses?

We are very much IN this world. And so long as we are in it, we need to make this existence livable. As Christians, we shouldn't throw our hands up and leave it up to God. We work, and ask God to help us. Heal the sick, feed the hungry, etc, etc, etc. Look at the missions, hospitals, universities and other things Christians have founded. Christian abolitionists were instrumental in ending slavery in the US. The civil rights movement was led by Christian leaders like the Rev King. I am just giving you a few examples.

“God does not wish to do everything, in order not to take from us our free will and that part of the glory which is ours.” Machiavelli

Burn

AGuest

and peace to you!

You asked why humans suffer. And I answered you, truthfully. I do understand that the response I gave may not be what you expected, but that's because you most probably follow what most other humans do and that is what suffering is, who suffers, and why. To give you one example, those who belong to the Christ do not consider "the sufferings of this world," in the same way as those who do not belong to the Christ. We know what is amiss, why, who caused, why, and what the end result will be. As a result, we are not "shipwrecked" because of it. WE know that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" and that the sufferings of this world, including death, are temporary.

True, "the sufferings of this world," are not PRETTY... but we are able to see beyond them. How WE suffer is as I told you: for the Christ, through persecution... and, for some, even murderous death... because of claiming to literally belong to, hear, and follow him. Those who do such persecution/murder are usually false "christs" who make the same claim. We know they are false, however... by their "fruits." One such "fruit" would be persecuting/killing those who claim to belong to, hear, and follow the Christ.

All other suffering (i.e., the sufferings of the world), are, unfortunately, merely a by-product of having an existence in this world, the physical realm, where such things exist. At some point, however, my Lord will do what Adham was charged with, but failed to do: bring together, again, the things in the spirit realm AND the things in the physical realm... so that once again the two are one. Those of us who belong to the Christ are simply... and patiently... awaiting that day. Those who "crave the day of Jah," who CAN'T wait... but go around preaching gloom and doom... death and hell... fire and brimstone... tribulation and destruction at Armageddon, however... are fooling themselves. They are only seeking judgment for themselves.

Why? Because... GOD DOES NOT WANT ANY TO DIE... and so He sent His Son... to SAVE the world. That One is "the GOOD news of the kingdom" and THAT is the message we are SUPPOSED to being folks... a message of LIFE... and HOPE. Not one of fear and pending destruction.

Anyway... I am sorry if you think I was being evasive - I actually thought I gave quite a bit of information. Certainly, I have tried to do so now, so I hope I have responded as you needed me to. In the meantime, I wish you the greatest of peace.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

AGuest

and peace to you!

You asked why humans suffer. And I answered you, truthfully. I do understand that the response I gave may not be what you expected, but that's because you most probably follow what most other humans do and that is what suffering is, who suffers, and why. To give you one example, those who belong to the Christ do not consider "the sufferings of this world," in the same way as those who do not belong to the Christ. We know what is amiss, why, who caused, why, and what the end result will be. As a result, we are not "shipwrecked" because of it. WE know that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" and that the sufferings of this world, including death, are temporary.

True, "the sufferings of this world," are not PRETTY... but we are able to see beyond them. How WE suffer is as I told you: for the Christ, through persecution... and, for some, even murderous death... because of claiming to literally belong to, hear, and follow him. Those who do such persecution/murder are usually false "christs" who make the same claim. We know they are false, however... by their "fruits." One such "fruit" would be persecuting/killing those who claim to belong to, hear, and follow the Christ. Another would be getting some kind of sick, unatural joy out of anyone's potential destruction, including that of their "enemies"... and preaching a message that this will occur.

All other suffering (i.e., the sufferings of the world), are, unfortunately, merely a by-product of having an existence in this world, the physical realm, where such things exist. At some point, however, my Lord will do what Adham was charged with, but failed to do: bring together, again, the things in the spirit realm AND the things in the physical realm... so that once again the two are one. Those of us who belong to the Christ are simply... and patiently... awaiting that day. Those who "crave the day of Jah," who CAN'T wait... but go around preaching gloom and doom... death and hell... fire and brimstone... tribulation and destruction at Armageddon, however... are fooling themselves. They are only seeking judgment for themselves.

Why? Because... GOD DOES NOT WANT ANY TO DIE... and so He sent His Son... to SAVE the world. That One is "the GOOD news of the kingdom" and THAT is the message we are SUPPOSED to being folks... a message of LIFE... and HOPE. Not one of fear and pending destruction.

Anyway... I am sorry if you think I was being evasive - I actually thought I gave quite a bit of information. Certainly, I have tried to do so now, so I hope I have responded as you needed me to. In the meantime, I wish you the greatest of peace.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

To all Bible believers... and non

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