What Does An Ultimately Cruel Universe Reveal About God? (page 3)

Perry

To most it's only disgusting and certainly won't bring them closer to God.

Why in the world would God want to bring his enemies closer to Himself? That's absurd! 3rd grade logic tells us that people separate themselves from their enemies.

Perry -- Please address my question from earlier in this thread.... Restated: If mankind is God's enemy and God would want to "avoid" them (thus leading to mankind's current sense of abandonment from a divine being), why did he (according to the Bible) send his son to reconcile mankind to himself? Why would he send his Son amongst enemies to be killed by them?

Perry

Because God loves his enemies.

Gopher

Perry -- I still don't get your logic. Consider this:

If God loves his enemies, why did he create a human race "in his image"? Couldn't he have done a better job of creating them? Does he hate his "own image"?

And in creating a race of mankind, surely a God of such foresight would have known that things would have turned out where many of mankind would turn aside from him. So does that make it right for him turn aside from mankind? Do two wrongs make a right?

If he willingly abandoned us, I don't think the axiom "God is love" can be true. The opposite of love is indifference, and that's what such a God would be showing by abandoning mankind to its own devices.

real one

That he will soon destroy all that do not obey!

Rapunzel

"That he will soon destroy all those who do not obey!" Wow, real one, you're just as "loving" as your pestilential, infanticidal, genocidal "god." You're a "real one," alright - a real idiot.

Gopher

That he will soon destroy all that do not obey!

So is it WORKS (of obedience) that save you? I thought the Christian message was about salvation towards those with FAITH in the Messiah. That's confusing, there are many conflicting messages coming out of religions and their holy books. Who knows what God (if he exists) really wants? Those who claim to have special insight on this are usually shown to have dubious motives.

Perry

Mankind is under a curse. A fatal flaw man's thinking. This curse or flaw, that blocks the understanding of the fundamental truth of all things is hidden from man, even in all the modern translations of the "bible".

This flaw is so profound, that its understanding and explotation has created vast sums of wealth in the hands of those who use it for purposes of deception and self enrichment.

I'll give you a hint: Have you ever (or have you ever seen someone who) spent 2 hours preparing for a party and shortly after arriving you hear a voice behind you that says, "You look great" or "I can't believe you made it". Turning in elated surprise to see who spoke only turns to mudane disinterest when it becomes apparant that they were talking about someone else.

When Adam and Eve disobeyed God they became vain, self centered. All of the sudden, they felt something was wrong with them.... so they sewed fig leaves together and made aprons. People like me, (a natural born salesman) understand this principle....that peoples' identities are tied up with their objects of desire.

In other words, while their minds were focused on God they were complete. When their minds became focused on themselves they all the sudden created a market for people like me, because now they "needed" something. There will always be people there to provide you with what you "need".

Ro 8:20 - Show Context: For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Eph 4:17 - Show Context: This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

So what does this mean in a practical sense? It means that when people hear certain words and phrases bantered around like "God's children" the natural tendency of man is to lay hold of such statements and in their vanity assume that the term "God's children" is talking about them.... when in fact it most likely is not.

Even atheists do that all the time on this board and it just baffles the heck out of me. I mean if I don't believe God exists, why would I care if he's a mean sky daddy or not? The answer is obvious of course....their vanity.

hamilcarr

I start to enjoy the christian message

Perry

R. Carusoe says:

It's as if holiness is bought with pain and suffering.

Evil is parasitic. Holiness can exist without evil. However evil cannot exist without holiness. All logic that is not vanity based will lead you to the axiom, "In the beginning God..."

What Does An Ultimately Cruel Universe Reveal About God?

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