A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world." (page 13)

Perry

For those of you who thought Terry's question was profound try this one:

Why does a man who enjoys fishing, go fishing?

The answer is not as easy as you think.

Terry

Terry you are obviously an unbeliever and no one will be able to answer you questions to satisfaction because we dont know the answers either. no one knows how God thinks but i can tell you he is Just because HE MADE JUSTICE!

To "Unbelieve" I have to have a grasp of what it is I am UNbelieving.

I'm stated for you (and others) that I can't grasp this JUSTICE you mention.

JUSTICE that perverts guilt and innocence simply looks exactly like INjustice to me.

Where am I going wrong?

There must be something you are seeing that I am missing. Right?

I'll be perfectly satisfied with any answer to my question that contains information which doesn't look like tautology parading as information.

BurnTheShips

I'm stated for you (and others) that I can't grasp this JUSTICE you mention.

The tone deaf don't get music either.

Burn

Terry

Kangaroo court.
That says it all.
Your judgement is greater than God's I suppose.

Okay, I'll ask you point blank: what is the difference between a Kangaroo Court and what God allowed to happen to Jesus?

The rigging of innocence punished and guilt set free is blatant in this "plan of salvation".

Tell me why you regard it as Divine Justice?

I'm all ears.

My judgement is based on what I see as the facts in the case. I'm asking for opposing points of view to present their case in plain words. It would be intellectually dishonest of me not to.

Perry

Ohhh, Ohhh, Here's another real mind bender:

What rationale is there to a man who loves loving?

Terry

Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

I'm sure you can plainly see the words of Romans 5:18 as well as I can.

But, can you understand what they reveal?

God placed before the first man and woman their opportunities and their limits while clearly delimiting the penalty for stepping beyond.

"In the day you do eat of it, you shall surely die."

I plainly ask you to answer the following question.

Where and in what words does God make clear to Adam or Eve that the penalty for transgression would INCLUDE as yet unborn offspring?

The warning and the penalty say nothing about "...condemnation to all men."

The expanded penalty of sin attribution is troubling and weird.

Why is it Justice to hold unborn children in the bargain?

You'd think Justice would require, at the very least that God:

1.Disallow Adam and Eve from procreating IF he were going to hold their unborn children accountable for their parent's act of boundry breaking.

2.At least warn Adam and Eve they were in danger of forfeiting MORE than their own lives.

Let's face it, no sane person will risk every man, woman and child for all ages to come on the bite of a fruit!

Okay, so here is my problem with this issue.

Not only did God never warn Adam and Eve that all of mankind would "inherit" a death penalty, God didn't even exact the penalty He had warned of!

"In the day you do eat of it you shall surely die."

A lifespan of 930 years was granted to this offender! Plenty of time was afforded for bringing dead children into the world to multiply further sin, sickness, disease, transgression and wickedness.

Is this Justice? Is it mercy?

If you say, "Yes, it is just to allow life even under dire circumstances of a foreshortened lifetime." Let me remind you that everybody alive in the time of Noah is included in this "mercy". And those people were DROWNED!

This drowning not only included men, women, grandmothers, children, crippled people, mentally retarded, infants and the unborn in wombs, but---a vast population of animals as well!

Justice?

The mind boggles!

Surely, when you read those words and you contemplate this story you have the intellectual honesty to admit the deaths were the result of an arbitrary, capricious, whimsical exacting of penalty from a stunningly bizarre god.

No. I can't buy it as Justice.

How can you?

I know how: you don't bother THINKING about it.

Terry

For those of you who thought Terry's question was profound try this one:
Why does a man who enjoys fishing, go fishing?
The answer is not as easy as you think.

Trying to have a serious discussion with you is about as productive as discussing things with a distracted teenager.

Not only will you not directly answer simple questions on topic, you pretend there is no question to answer.

I'm sure you find yourself amusing. But, I find your rope-a-dope revealing of a deeper problem. You aren't a serious thinker.

If you didn't think the question worth answering, why bother to engage on a discussion board?

If you believe something and don't have any reasons, just admit that. Don't pretend to a higher source of information.

I'll ask you yet again: Why does God so love the world...as in John 3:16 if His perfect standards cause Him to condmen man in the first place?

Was God wrong to condemn man? If not, why redeem him from condemnation?

Remember, folks--God is redeeming man from his OWN condemnation. God is paying Himself the price of man's release. Man dies because God condmens man. What is the basis for UNcondemning him?

What an exercise in obsessive compulsive disorder!

Terry

What rationale is there to a man who loves loving?

I'll afford you the courtesy you deny me.

People love because they hold values. The higher the value, the greater the emotional response to the thing valued.

Humans are motivated to pursue what appears to be the optimum value. No sane person seeks self destruction.

When we eat, sleep, drink, shelter ourselves or go fishing we are seeking optimum value for our well-being.

To the extent we are RATIONAL we choose carefully what we value.

To the extent we are IRRATIONAL we act unwisely by selecting values which are impractical.

Human intelligence has to be actively applied and vigilant in the sorting and selecting or sorting and deselecting process. Each of us lives a life impacted by the choices we make. Stupid people make stupid choices. Stupidity is irrational.

That is why I demand of those who admire God's mercy and Love a RATIONAL response to my question.

I can't rationally find value in a JUSTICE which appears to nullify itself by perverting guilt and innocence.

Deputy Dog

Terry

Not only did God never warn Adam and Eve that all of mankind would "inherit" a death penalty, God didn't even exact the penalty He had warned of!
"In the day you do eat of it you shall surely die."

Actually they did. The abillity to sustain righteousness of their own, died. they needed God's grace to stay alive.

A lifespan of 930 years was granted to this offender!

They were dead men walking, by God's grace.

Plenty of time was afforded for bringing dead children into the world to multiply further sin, sickness, disease, transgression and wickedness.

Romans 5:20

The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Is this Justice? Is it mercy?

If it's justice you want, it's justice you will get. I'll take mercy any day.

Perry

I see you are ahead Terry by 1500 points. Let's play the game!

Terry: Mind Benders for 300

The answer is "THE DAILY DOUBLE"

Ok, Listen carefully;

Why does a serial killer kill again?

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

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