A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry 384 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Perry

  For me, based on the way God (as represented in scripture) deals with mankind, there is no basis for confidence

  Ain't that the truth! From cover to cover we see that God punishes sin, as we expect him to do; just as we expect our law enforcement to do as well. That's why confidence in yourself is totally misplaced; especially in light of the fact that God has offered a total pass to "whosoever".

  Imagine the warmest fuzziest memory you have, perhaps from childhood. That's what God offers in his presence. I traded my shame for a crown of victory over sin. What did it cost me? Only this:

  I can never take credit for the awesome blessings I enjoy.
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  Terry

  It there was a 100% chance that a cereal serial killer would kill again, would you want fellowship with him? Babies have a 100% chance of sinning. They later die because of this inheritance.

  What died in Adam was the spirit that he was led by. Being separated from the Source of Life, atrophy set in as the 2nd law of thermodynamics demand.

  This is more responsive to the topic! Thanks.

  The as-yet-unconceived babies of Adam and Eve had a 100% chance of sinning, you say. Consequently, they were condemnded BEFORE their crimes. Right? Judged prior to the acts which made them guilty. Right?

  This "inheritance" of sin you speak about. Is it in the DNA to be inherited? You speak of a "spirit" that led Adam. Is this a metaphor or an actual "thing" which has consciousness separate from Adam's mind?

  It seems to me that all this merely amounts to God's particular frame of mind rather than being a law of nature.

  Either Adam (or any living person) is able to or is not able to---do something by nature. Humanity cannot act contrary to their nature.

  This selfsame "nature" which is 100% sin prone---is this what man uses to accept God's salvation? Choice from a fallen mind or spirit?

  How do you see that working?
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  BurnTheShips

  I wonder is it possible to explain the difference between atheists and theists by accepting different contexts without immediately passing judgments on one another's views?

  It is possible. But it is difficult to acquiesce when the atheists constantly pass judgement on those that have a belief. Which is funny since a-theos is an even more rationally untenable assumption than theos. Only a person with infinite knowledge can assert a universal negative.

  I believe because it suits me. I believe because I believe. I am a believer. That is who I am. I love myself as I am because I am uniquely myself. Why should I change? I feel the divine touch within me and I rejoice. None of these arguments here convince me thoroughly. Some have made me doubt in the past. This is good for me because I feel my joy renewed when I return to faith, like returning to a lover after an absence.

  To deny my belief is to deny myself. I will not deny without proof. I say here on this board, prove to me there is no God.

  Reason alone at most can lead us to agnos-theos. The rest, in either direction, is a leap of faith.

  Burn

  Edited to clarify
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  R.Crusoe

  Perry - you have decided a collection of mixed writings is god of the cosmos!

  There is way more than that!
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  hamilcarr

  But it is difficult to acquiesce when the atheists constantly pass judgement on those that have a belief.

  Honestly Burn, are it only non-believers passing judgements? Seriously. I think both do --- erroneously, due to ignorance.
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  BurnTheShips

  Honestly Burn, are it only non-believers passing judgements? Seriously. I think both do --- erroneously, due to ignorance.

  No it is not, and I have taken believers to task on here before. I don't feel like doing it right now, since the judgement passing is going both ways on this thread. There are atheists on this board I would defend against some of these Christians.

  Burn
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  R.Crusoe

  My only excuse for god letting the suffering take place that goes on is if he expects tomorrow, the world of humankind to share everything they know and work collaboratively to solve all the worlds ills, hunger and desires!

  History tells even us that it wont happen - so god must be even more certain!

  Unless god is sure that love and cooperation will prevail in some multifaceted network of simultaneous equations that a solution is drawing to a close over?

  So , apart from the complex equation mularkey, which incidentally doesnt explain the extent of suufering thats gone on forever, why wouldn't a god of love simply call closing tome and tell us all how he wants it arranging! Seems pretty straightforward to me! Like everyone turns up for work and needs direction else it never comes off the production line!

  Looking for secrets and dates in the Bible has zilch to do with it!
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  Perry

  This selfsame "nature" which is 100% sin prone---is this what man uses to accept God's salvation?

  Of course not..... man would be right back to his vanity, taking credit for making some kind of wise decision. No, the depravity of man is total. Your spirit is useless....dead. Trying to approach God through your own method is vanity.

  Romans 8:

  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ....14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,they are the sons of God.

  Man cannot even utter the words "Save me".

  John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

  What man can do is to ask God for his mercy, a new birth, the ability to say.... save me.
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  kerj2leev

  God doesn't love the world!

  It's all about the vindication of his holy name....if you believe in the bible story. He need's to clear up his name to all the other spirit creatures, to prove that his little experiment wasn't a failure! His egotism goes beyond insanity, as he offers up his only son, on account of his reputation!
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  BurnTheShips

  It's all about the vindication of his holy name....if you believe in the bible story.

  Umm. That's not the Bible story, at least not all of it. That is the JW interpretation of it.

  Burn