Jesus never existed!

by Layla33 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • sir82
    sir82

    If in the 20th century, mere decades after the fact, large numbers of people could believe that the Nazi death camps were really "vacation spots", that the moon landings were faked, Elvis didn't really die, etc., despite virtual mountains of documentation and eyewitness accounts, well, then why is it so hard to believe that...

    ...2000 years ago, 40 years after the alleged crucifixation, in a society where 99% of the populace was illiterate and uneducated, the average lifespan was far less than 50 years, written records for anything were scarcer than hen's teeth, and people were yearning for deliverance from an oppressive regime...

    A legend could grow out of rather mundane beginnings?

    I'm not saying that is the case, but I don't understand how the idea that it was all just made up is often just dismissed out of hand as impossible.

  • Rapunzel
    Rapunzel

    Kutbethel, you wrote, in regard to the persona or character named Jesus - "Even if he never existed, he would have been invented anyway." Good point! That is exactly what the French philosophe, Voltaire, wrote: "Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer" ["If God didn't exist, He would have to be invented"]. Or, by slightlly altering the verb tenses, one could say: "Si Dieu n'avait pas existe, il aurait fallu l'inventer" [If God had not existed, he would have had to have been invented"].

    In fact, if one were to believe Carl Jung, the idea of Jesus was present in the minds of humans long, long before he appeared in stories about 2,000 years ago. According to Jung, and his theories of archetypes, since the beginning of the species homo sapiens, humans possess innate, inborn patterns of thought called archetypes. These "archetypes" have manifested themselves in the literature [first oral, and then written] of all societies and all cultures from time immemorial. Example of such "archetyes" are The Scapegoat, The Harrowing of Hell, The Devouring Mother, The Hero, and The Savior [or Redeemer]. The "archetypes" are imagistic "stamps" on the human psyche. These archetypes manifest themselves in varying ways in different cultures and different historica eras, but they do find a way of manifesting themselves. They appear in all literature; and they appeared in the oral traditions of pre-literate peoples. In the mythology of many peoples, we find examples of a "god" who dies and is then resurrected. Often, this "god" has a "virgin" as a mother. It was inevitable that such a "savior archetye" would appear in Christian mythology.The Argentinian writer, Borges, once wrote that throughout all of human history, all stories have been merely variations of two Stories - the Story of Odysseus and the Story of Golgotha. These two stories - the Story of Wandering followed by a settling/return home, and the story of Redemption - are really at the heart of all other stories. As the mythologist, Joseph Cambell, pointed out, it is a question of The Hero With a Thousand Faces.

    As a final note, Voltaire also wrote: "If God has created us in his image, we have returned the favor."

  • startingover
    startingover

    I can't believe there have been no responses from the believers of the bible on this subject, I would be interested to hear what they have to say.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I'm not one who believes the Bible is an all inspired book. I believe it is NOT all inspired. I was watching a coupld of shows on Discovery Channel on Easter. Archs have have found Simon Peter's house in the village of Capernium. They say it was a village of about 1500 people and that Jesus lived there as well. There is more evidence for than there is against the historical existence of Jesus.

  • Gopher
    Gopher
    Archs have have found Simon Peter's house in the village of Capernium. They say it was a village of about 1500 people and that Jesus lived there as well.

    Simon and Jesus were common names in Palestine back in those days, were they not? Just because people with those names lived there doesn't necessarily support all the claims made about Simon Peter and Jesus in the Bible.

    There is more evidence for than there is against the historical existence of Jesus.

    This may be the popular view in Christian culture, but can you back up this assertion? The burden of proof is on any making such assertions rather than on the skeptic.

    And the skeptics have had their say earlier in this thread. Layla had this quote in her earlier post:

    Consider that not a single historian, philosopher, scribe or follower who lived before or during the alleged time of Jesus ever mentions him!

    How can that be, if what you assert (more evidence "for" than "against" a historical Jesus) is true?

    And even if one believes such men actually are historical, must one believe all the miracles purported to be true? Did Jesus really cast demons out of a man and into a herd of swine, for example? Is there more proof "for" than "against" such miracles? Aren't they really items of faith?

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Roughly some odd years later, you can claim people didn't exist. Prove they didn't exist. There is evidence Jesus existed. I am not burdened to prove this. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me whether someone believes he did not exist. It isn't necessary to believe anyone existed. I am not one who believes there is one true god or religion. For many people who are afraid, deep down, that there is some angry god based on the bible, that expects them to act a certain way, sure, they are clamoring to prove Jesus didn't exist. I am not worried. Never was worried about Jesus and judgment, etc. Now Jehovah? Yeah, I doubted him always. Just never really felt he could be real. He was too hateful and vindictive.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    Archs have have found Simon Peter's house in the village of Capernium.

    They knew because the keys fitted?

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Next time the show comes on, watch it Nark. Discovery Channel. And you can find articles on it elsewhere. The Discovery Channel is not a religious channel.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Hi FHN,

    I can't watch Discovery Channel, but I visited the site a few years ago: of course there is a "house of Peter" in Capharnaum by a tradition from the 4th century (like most Christian "holy places" in Palestine), when a church was built upon a group of older (1st-century BC) houses to mark the alleged spot.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Or order them and watch the shows for yourself. Or not, it's not like you're going to be eternally damned if you do or you don't. http://shopping.discovery.com/Jesus-The-Complete-Story-DVD-Set.shtml

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