Wow, this thread blew me away! It's so true. I need to get my hands on Steve Hassan's book. In my mind now I can "see" all of my family's two personalities. Their mannerisms, demeanour, everything flips between two states.
Your JW Relatives Have 2 Personalities - Cult & Authentic- See the Change
by flipper 40 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Dogpatch
Some more stuff on this subject. I have worked with Hassan on a number of cases, and educated him that JWs are a cult years ago.
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/psych.htm
Randy
-
flipper
TIRED of the HYPOCRISY- You said, " Either the cult makes people crazy or they attract the vast majority of them. " I agree. I think it's a combination of both points ! LOL!
TYRONE - I know you went through a lot of suffering my friend getting out of the organization. I truly empathize. I think you are right when you say some people may always stay in the witnesses - and perhaps wouldn't be able to handle their " fantasies ' getting pulled out from under them. I was in it 44 years from birth and at age 44 finally got out almost 5 years ago. I wasn't treated as badly as you were , so I can't fully understand the bouts with depression you have had , so I have no idea the extent you suffered. But please know my wife and I care. I hope some day things ease up for you. Peace.
MICKEY MOUSE- You would really enjoy the " Combatting cult mind control" book. So you can see it as well- the personality flip-flops in your witness family too ?! It's crazy, isn't it ?
DOGPATCH- Thanks for the link ! I know you have been a big help for many people in escaping " cult mind control" as well as Steve Hassan ! I'm glad you've had the opportunity to work with him ! You are to be commended for your efforts and caring ! Peace -
isnrblog
I have to read this book. It seems to make sense.
These personality issues would be the same in any "cult" type environment. For example, those women from the polygamist Mormon sect who were interviewed on TV this week. They were basically robots.
In college, I noticed the same type of behavior among those who were passionate about social issues, gay rights, anti-abortion, anti-military. Cult like behavior is not necessarily religious.
Fred www.isnrblog.com
-
Praying4Justice
It was exactly this split personality that freaked me out when I witnessed it in my daughter. She is sweet and kind, a good sensitive girl with a big heart. When I started to finally research this religion and get some idea of what they believe in and read all the endless heartbreaking testimonies, I started to see some of the same negative behavior in her. When I approached her with some questions, I was absolutely blown away by her reaction. When I watched that cold glazed look creep into her eyes, I lost it. . .I broke down. She had never looked like that before. When she was looking at me, she was looking right through me. All of her normal, sensitve emotions were gone. It was from that day on that I have vowed to do whatever I can to help save her away from these people.
That was a few years ago. They have since moved her out of our home so she can be closer to them and away from her opposing mother, but that does not stop me from seeing and talking to her every chance I get. Now that I know what they are all about and what their true agenda is, I understand how they think. So, I keep in constant contact with her and tell her much we all love her and that we are here for her no matter what. She no longer has that cold hard emotionless look when I talk to her. She may not want to talk about certain subjects because she doesn't know how to answer the simpliest questions. She will get fidgety and look uncomfortable because I can tell she's thinking of "how" she "should" answer instead of just answering the way "she" feels. It's frustrating to see that, but the soft sensitivity is back in her big brown eyes.
She knows exactly how her whole family feels about this religion, but she also knows that we will never stop loving her because she belongs to it. We always bring up the past and the good times and I always try to get her to think of what she wants to do with her future. She's still so young and always talked with excitement about life after high school, until she got caught up with them. Now, she doesn't talk about it, but I know it's still in her to want to do something she loves, other than what she's doing now. . .work. . .meetings. . .field service. . .meetings. . .meetings. . . . . . .
Take Care All~
-
carla
For me, when my now jw first started all this it was the scariest thing in the world to me! To see his eyes actually glass over, his facial expressions were not his at all! and let's not forget the ever famous jw smirk that they must adopt. Then I read Hassans book and realized this was common in cults and that was a comfort to me because I wasn't sure if it was me or if these changes were actually happening. The facial expressions seemed to have stopped but then again we have not had a jw discussion in a loooong time. When I met an elder I understood exactly where he got this from as the elders and my husband had the exact same facial expressions. These days I really don't like to drive with him after he has been to a meeting because he is kind of 'spacey' and inattentive.
-
flipper
ISNRBLOG- I agree. The " cult" type environment is not only in religions , but this behavior can be noticed in extremism on other issues as well. Good point.
PRAYING 4 JUSTICE- I know exactly what you are going through with your daughter - as my 2 daughters in their early 20's are JW's ! My older daughter is sweet as anything also - however when she gets that JW cult lingo going in conversation with me - she seems to be looking right through me. It's eerie. But like you said - I'm just going to keep showing her I'll always be here for her - no matter what ! And hope in time it will soften her in her personality characteristics.
CARLA- I bet it did scare you about your husband when he first got in the JW 's ! It is creepy. I agree. They do have a weird smirk on their faces ! My wife and I noticed that in looking at a couple elders facial expressions ! They really do get spaced out ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
LayingLow
I can sense a switch in my personality from easy going to rigid and serious. I still do it though. I can start out one way in the morning and can be the other by that night. For me it is passion. Passion for an ideology makes my volume increase and every other thing mentioned. When I'm not presently considering a topic that I'm passionate about I drift back into a really lax mode. I can't say for sure that this started in the JW's however. I think I've always done it. Maybe I'm screwed up like that, it's hard to say really.
The glassiness comes from a mental disengagement with the person and a concentration on the thought of passion (human rights, or whatever). Unfortunately I can also do that if I'm bored. I try to pretend I'm interested but my mind has disengaged.
This all comes from an inward sensation of believing that others must feel the same as me about something. It's weird, it's like if I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, then there's no pressure, but as soon as something comes up, click. It's there.
Anyone else experience this? -
mcsemike
Flipper: You brought many good points. I have observed JW's go into robot defense mode if they had an audience or if they felt the situation called for their "corrections" concerning false doctrine. Maybe at work or wherever. Sometimes they needed a self-righteous shot in the arm and doing their thing gives them that "high". Or they might be feeling worthless so they start the preaching crap to remind themselves (they think) and others that in the end, THEY are the winners.
It never occurs to them that after their speech is over, they are still the same sorry cult members they were the day before. It's really sad. I don't blame the rank and file as much as I do the ones up high that KNOW this is all bullshit. But again, "you reap what you sow". At some point, the rank and file will be punished since Jesus warned about judging others. Since they have condemned 6 billion people to death, they have much to answer for.
I learned much about them in college in a course called "Abnormal Psychology". Isn't that ironic???
But then again, what do "worldly" professors know?? After all, they only studied human nature for ten years in college and then worked in the field for decades. But the ELDERS, well, they actually finished high school, though reluctantly. They really wanted to work after school during the summer perhaps, at Burger King so that they'd have a head start on the other applicants who would someday show up to find work. The JW would have already dropped out of HS and know how to say, "Do you want fries with that?" in at least four different languages.
We have to give them some credit, it's not easy to remember to ask about fries or "supersizing" since those are long sentences for their level of education. And they can officially tell everyone that they are bilingual!! What an honor!! So here in Florida, they have the privilege of being told to get off the householder's property in either Spanish or English. Versatility. What a valuable employment skill. Seeing that half of Florida speaks Spanish, they can utilize this great skill daily. They can have doors slammed in their faces with the householder cursing them in Spanish or they can have it in English.
I know deaf sign language, so another thought occurred to me. If a deaf person answers the door, he/she can tell the JW where he can go and can use some very imaginative hand gestures while doing so. I've actually seen this and it's funny as hell. The JW doesn't have a clue that the deaf person is tearing them to pieces and all the JW can do is smile and nod his head. He has no idea that the deaf person just called him every name in the book and questioned his sanity. Occasionally, the JW will almost shout what the offer of the month is because we all know that if someone doesn't speak our language or is deaf, we can suddenly make them understand us by yelling. Isn't that a good skill to have??
I especially liked the comment you made about being themselves while on vacation or in the "robot presentation mode" being switched off. But as Randy's site brought out in the cartoons, the JW might just as easily sit around a nice campfire in the mountains and thank God for firewood, bananas, matches, warm tents, and when they are able to go number two. LOL
I better stop, this is just too funny and easy to do a satire on every day. I will say I have NEVER seen a cult that provides so much information and behavior that even a child (not raised as a JW) can see right through them.
Yet again, maybe that energetic and intelligent child who sees through the idiocy that a 60 year old elder is trying to ram down his throat might have eaten some "Wonder bread" made from that "miracle wheat". If the WT had been smart about this when Russell died, they should have buried him in a large casket with a bushel of miracle wheat and a razor blade. Then Russell could have been eating the wheat, regained his strength back, realized he needed a shave as badly as Rutherford needed the location of the nearest AA meeting, and then risen from the dead so he really could be directing the work from the Pleidas (sp?) sitting right next to God. I hope that one of our future shuttles or spaceships don't veer of course and hit Russell's large easy chair.
Thanks again, Mr. Flipper. I think I'll write a few humorous (if anyone thinks I am) articles to include in my book or as a supplement. Oh, and I'm not worried anymore about dying from cancer. I can just use that radio wave quack device and watch tumors come out of my ears while I'm being "healed". Or I could drink raw milk and do a daily "air bath", which consisted of bobbing up and down for an hour naked in a sunny room. I hope I don't forget to close the curtains. I'm sure doing a "bob dance" alone would attract a fair amount of attention from the psych ward employees.
Please write more, Flipper. I'd like to have more material to use at the door next time. Thanks in advance.
-
flipper
LAYING LOW- Good post. It is hard to break out of the switch in personalities from " JW " mode to " authentic" mode , or being real even just after getting out of the witness cult. It takes time. You are not screwed up. It's good to be vocal about things if you believe in something worthy. There is just a way to present the information to get across your point to whomever you are talking with. I think the witnesses put it in us to think that ," others must feel the same as me about something. " I've seen that myself the further I get away from the witnesses. After being out almost 5 years now , I really open up to other people's views more readily. Peace.
MCSE MIKE- I enjoyed your satirical humor. Funny stuff ! My son took an " abnormal psychology " class in his university as well. He said it was very interesting ! But you are right - elders don't have enough education to be helping people with serious problems in their lives. A McDonalds or Burger King degree just doesn't cut it.
I agreed with your point that the LEADERS of the Watchtower society are to blame. Not the " mind controlled" followers. They are just being deceived and following instructions from dishonest men. You are right- even children should see through the WT societies double - speak , but " mind control" is a powerful weapon against people when they don't know it's being used against them ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper