the TRUTH about DISFELLOWSHIPPING and SHUNNING from JESUS view

by Terry 51 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  nomoreguilt

  Reniaa.......I get the feeling that you are still somewhat enamoured with the concept of the org. Now, consider this. If it were to come to the attention of the elders that you, I or anyone on jwd were active in this forum, we WOULD be df'd. Now, do you believe that this would be a SIN in jesus' eyes? For a fact, he condemned the religious leaders of his time for setting up rules that hindered the spirituality of the jews back then.

  Do YOU believe that the wtbts is hindering the efforts of honest hearted people in learning the REAL truth about the bible? Many people here at JWD have learned a great many truths about the bible and have also learned the TRUTH about the wtbts.

  Now, how would YOU feel if you were DF'd for being active here and WANTING to learn the TRUTH of these things? Could you come up with a BETTER way of dealing with practice? When you are DF'd, they just consider you as DEAD.

  My 2 cents.

  NMG
• 

  catbert

  Burn,
  
  If you want to seduce a person into shifting their opinion, sometimes you must use the "wolf in sheeps clothing" approach.
  You despise Dawkins because he is a wolf in wolves clothing. You don't like Terry when he puts on his sheep suit.
  
  This applies to people who stay in the org to try to plant seeds of doubt. Wolves in sheeps clothing. This also applies
  to individuals who go door to door and choose not to use as an opening line "Jesus inspected our religion in 1918 and found
  us to be the one true religion and you will die at armageddon if you do not join us". Wolves in sheeps clothing.
• 

  reniaa

  Lol i would question if i'm actually learning the truth on this site, which is basically the thing it is, which is an anti-witness site providing info that would stumble anyone, a lot of this information is correct though like the ending of home bookstudy one which personally has had me stumbling at the JW's more than anything else i've so far read on this site.

  But some is out of date watchtowers from mega years ago when we were a lot different from now as country and world-wide, even 20 years ago people were encouraged to marry if they had sex and got caught pregnant, nowadays my sister tought me a new expression for single women in my local council estate who have multiple kids to multiple partners they are called " four by four 4x4" as in the car, so far has the world changed in that respect. Now marriage is a thing going out of practise as the norm, Stuff from years ago must be taken in context with the times that people lived in and the last 20/40 years have see a massive change word-wide in thinking and practises, we are richer and wealthier now than we have ever been in some countries with plenty of recreatonal options lol 40 years ago when TV's were black and white and for the rich only, going on the ministry was a fun social outing :), but now it has to compete with internet and gaming, Sky etc lol

  Then some information on here is opinion stated as fact

  Also personal experiences on here however truthful are stated from the first person perspective and so subjective at best. We are not going to say anything negative about our own actions in a situation we are telling people about, that is just human nature!

  Then some info as in this case of disfellowshipping that has biblical basis as in paul words which does need exploring biblically to see if the witnesses are applying it abitarily wrongly in many cases.

  Matthew 18:15-17, Romans 16:17, 1 Corinthians 5, and 2 John 7-11.

  these scriptures have directly led to the concept of disfellowshipping but where the witnesses right to have read them that way or overly strict in applying them?

  and if we don't disfellowship how do we apply these scriptures in our everyday life?
• 

  real one

  carla and anti you are on the money!
• 

  WTWizard

  There were certain people that Jesus never suggested forgiving, nor did he forgive them. Most of those are in the class of rulers that were hellbent on keeping control on the human race, and preventing them from breaking out of the bicameral mode (as Jesus was trying to get people to do). Jesus would not forgive those who dedicated their lives to that purpose--they are trying to bring on a Dark Ages.

  Aside from this, Jesus was extremely lenient. He associated with the tax collectors (who were known as extortioners). He fellowshipped closely with people that were living debauched lives, having a full understanding why their lives were so messed up. He was also quite tolerant of people that slipped up. He even forgave Peter after denying him three times, giving him a mighty privilege after only 6 weeks. And there were so many petty arguments the apostles got into. Jesus understood that as meaning they were struggling with conscious thinking, and would have these problems until they were fully integrated in thinking. None of those things were reason for Jesus to "mark" anyone or refuse association with them.

  Even the Pharisees themselves, the group that sought to plunge the race into the Dark Ages, were not totally shunned. Jesus would not allow them to alter his correct viewpoint. In that way, he "disfellowshipped" them. However, they were not busted up from friends and family. All Jesus wanted was to stop them from preventing fully integrated thinking, and that was why Jesus would pronounce woe and doom on them. Not because they slipped up and committed a sin, even a major one, or had major questions about the organization.
• 

  nomoreguilt

  Reniaa.....2 John is referring to the teachings in the BIBLE, not to push ahead of those. However, the wtbts would have you not pushing ahead of THEIR teachings, which, in practice are hypocritical. They cite fornication with the Wild Beast, which is the U.N.. And yet, THEY themselves were a member of that same organization, riding on it's back for their own benefit just like the Harlot that they condemn.

  For DECADES they prohibited the use of BLOOD of ANY SORT !! It was to be poured out on the ground. And yet, they now allow BLOOD FRACTIONS??? Where is this pouring out on the ground here?

  Involvement by an active JW in either of these cases would merit DFing.

  Do your homework gal, think about what you say, from FACT and not FIRST person accounts.

  NMG
• 

  Terry

  You don't believe in Jesus.

  You don't believe the writings about him.

  You don't believe the doctrines of his followers.

  So for you talk about the views of a man that you don't believe , whose attributed writings you don't credit, and whose historic legacy you scoff at, and use them as rule to establish correct conduct in the JWs is ludicrous.

  I think you may be confused.

  JWD is a discussion board. Ex-JW's primarily discuss things here. I qualify as a participant because I am an EX-JW.

  Were doctrines not of interest or concern to me I'd not waste my time.

  You are implying no discussion can take place without some sort of OATH or pledge of committment to a position being avowed.

  This would, of course, be ludicrous as I know you'll agree.

  A wide variety of subject can be discussed without one swearing fealty for or against something.

  I think I can make a case that the DISinterested party is better able to consider issues in which no stake is owned.

  What I think or don't think about Jesus is rather beside the point. I'm agnostic. This means I JUST DON'T KNOW. That is as impartial as you'll get in any discussion.

  Therefore, I can argue on merits pro or con that the argument of scripture AS IS either makes sense in application by JW's or it does not.

  Otherwise, no principles could ever be discussed.

  Thanks for worrying about the topic enough to participate.
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  "feckless woman"...

  ...we know who you speak of...no need to point adjectives...

  love michelle
• 

  Terry

  For me disfellowshiping is a big issue that needs more exploration than just saying we should forgive everything especially as you get weird contradictions with it, people condeming JW's for disfellowshiping but then condemning them for reinstating someone after they've done their time at the back at the congregation, I guess my real question is how would we do it differently/better.

  What is the CORE issue here?

  About two weeks ago I started a topic about John 3:16. I asked a simple question which was, "on what basis could God be said to LOVE THE WORLD so much that He gave His only begotten son..?"

  From Adam's sin onward, God demonstrated a judgement, curse, punishment and accountability attitude toward mankind--even to the point of DESTROYING all but 8 souls! Then, in Jesus' day, suddenly God flip-flops and is eager to LOVE mankind to the point of sacrificing His innocent son.

  Why did I raise that issue?

  I think the same issue underlies Disfellowshipping and shunning policy among Jehovah's Witnesses today.

  How so?

  Jesus takes a completely CONTRARY approach to dealing with humanity than his father did in the Old Testament (especially the Jews).

  Jesus demonstrated time and again that a deeper issue was involved in THE LAW and underlying judgement itself.

  If we examine Jesus' message carefully it is clearly his intention to BENEFIT humanity no matter how wrong they are or ill-deserving of it.

  GRACE=charis=unearned (undeserved) benefit/kindness/mercy

  THE CORE ISSUE in disfellowshipping seems at odds with mercy, forgiveness and personal worthiness.

  The stray sheep is not disfellowshipped. The stray sheep disfellowships ITSELF.

  The Shepherd will not abide the straying! The Shepherd knows the safety of the one stray is EQUAL IN VALUE to the safety of the remaining flock!

  Stop and think about that equation!

  The stray sheep is worth going after and is also worth the shepherd going away from the obedient toward this disobedient sheep.

  Compare this attitude to the committee making a GROUP DECISION on behalf of the ENTIRE BROTHERHOOD!

  It does not match.

  There is no basis for it in scripture that I can find.

  I want to know if anybody else sees this logical and elemental error---or, is it just me?

  Each individual Christian is called upon to show mercy or not based on a personal willingness to forgive or not forgive a transgressor WHO IS PART of the flock and who has SEPARATED themselves like the stray sheep.

  See my point?
• 

  Terry

  The only reason is for the protection of that organisation and to create fear in the followers.

  Did Jesus protect his disciples from Judas? Or, did he allow Judas full access to the message and the brotherhood right up until the very end without stopping him in any way. "What you must do, do quickly."

  The parable about the wheat and tares seems to indicate that only at the final threshing is the true nature of the individual revealed after FULL MEASURE of access to the same planting, growing, watering and harvesting.

  Who is the final judge if not the heavenly court? In disfellowshipping the judgement is made too early.

  The entire course of a Christian, as delineated in scripture, is one of constant trial. Working beside, living beside, worshipping beside persons with problems, issues, faults and sins IS PART OF THE TRIAL process.

  Who is charged with approaching a sinner but the INJURED PARTY ALONE.

  See that word ALONE?

  If that fails, a mature and experienced brother strong in the faith goes along PRIVATELY to remedy the sin.

  Who is the sinner? THEY ALL ARE. It is just that one sinner offends another---that is the issue---not that A SIN has been committed (as though no sin were possible otherwise!)

  When the injured party and the offender cannot come to terms they have to part company. One treats the other like they'd treat anybody else IN THE WORLD. (How did God view the world? GOD SO LOVED the world........)

  The loving Christian who is offended by an unrepentant sinner can no longer have a personal intimacy relationship.

  Where does it say they are kicked out of the congregation and nobody is allowed to pray for them?

  The stray sheep wasn't kicked out of the flock and consigned to snubbing, was it?

  A spirit of mercy and loving kindness causes those more mature (than the unrepentant sinner) to reach out lovingly---NOT OFFER CONDEMNATION AND SHUNNING.

  The difference between Jesus' approach and the Jehovah's Witness Elders is striking!