What will you do when the Great Tribulation Begins? (page 18)

Malkiel

i'm sure openmind we can confirm this but i'm on vacation and i don't have my library at hand. i'm interested to know where you are going with this...

Malkiel

anti christ-

you assume that we had to keep 'hush hush' because we believed we were doing something bad?

That is your argument? It is the first argument i've heard for this UN issue and its very weak.

-open mind

perhaps it wasn't just flood date that got this person disfellowshipped?

I will have to exit for now again,

thanks for your posts

TD

Milkiel

Jesus brought this very issue up in his parable of the workers at the vineyard.

I think you should probably know that the JW parent organization teaches a wierd convoluted modern explanation of the vinyard parable of Matthew 20 that involves Jehovah, the "clergy of Christendom" and Jehovah's Witnesses. --Nothing like what Jesus seems to be saying.

In most mainstream interpretations, the parable simply means that the kingdom of heaven is open to all who are willing to work for it, not that you would be excluded by some quirk of fate.

When Jesus stated that just and unjust would be resurrected, it was not his decision, it was Jehovah's. And that's the way it is. He has declared how the 'rules' will apply. In paradise, if we get there, we will be close to disbelief that we're there to begin with, that this issue of deception won't even matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the JW's interpret this in a way that would make God unfair to people,

The hypothetical example I gave of an early Christian with an "earthly hope" was meant to show that the passage of time is slowly wrecking JW eschatology and creating a third group for which there is no biblical support.

A faithful Christian who does not attain to salvation is a contradiction in terms, a violation of all that Jesus promised. This in and of itself is one very good reason why it is taught by JW's that there was only one hope, the heavenly one from the time of Pentecost clear up into the 20th century. When the great crowd was identified, the end was supposed to be close enough for that group to survive it.

Things haven't quite worked out though.

ninja

hey malkster....see ...us apostates aren't so bad.........well except for nvrgnbk.......(ninja's inevitable monthly dig at nvr)

joebin

Malkiel

I'll probably do the same thing you'll do. Run for cover. That's what the bible says we'll all do.

You put a value on your connection to the watchtower and your (or anyone's) salvation. Now I understand since the watchtower always says you have to be considered an active witness to get that special treatment during the great tribulation. Can you give me an example of things the watchtower will do for you in that time of crisis. I thought about it many times but could never come up with something practical. Not just.."we'll receive instructions" but more, what kind of instructions.

the question is, do I have salvation?
the simple answer is - i want to have it and i hope Jehovah deems me worthy of it.

Your answer just goes to show that the WT has nothing to do with your salvation.

So the question is. do I need the WT for salvation?

take care

sinis

Malkeil: Loyal servant of Jehovah, eh? Gee lets see, how many people did Yahweh FUCK over in the OT? Would you, no, COULD YOU do some of the things he supposedly did? You need to get a grip and explore history, mythology, and cultural advancements. You will sson realize that Christianity, Islam, and Judiasm are all products stemming out of Sumeria. No doubt when the mini ice age hit people thought the end was nigh, so too with the Black Plague. Can you imagine if wit-noids were around back then? You would be hearing the same shit. The UN, Beast, Daniels prophecy, etc. are continuous NONSTOP interpretations that people use to justify whatever century they exist in - hell the Bible itself has been added to, mistranslated, expounded on, ad nausium...

No granted I believe that men will bring our demise on our OWN by his sheer stupidity. Yet, don't expect any God to start picking up the pieces. Tell me, what will you do when you are old and gray, lieing on your death bed and nothing has changed? Where is Christs promised Kingdom? A little late don't you think? Unfortunately, that bus never left the station...

Moxie

If you look carefully, Freemasonry (sun worshipping) has laid the foundation to begin executing their 'secret' plan to give life to the UN, it in turn substitute all currency with one, and finally substitute all religions with the Craft (or Freemasonry).

To Malkeil: (I'm a little late entering this discussion)

To me, the above comment is indicative of your lack of understanding of world economics as well as objective historical fact. It just emphasizes to me how brainwashed you people really are. I believe that the only apocalypse we're going to see is the worsening of the oil crisis. Don't I wish there was a God to step in and sort that out for us ;)

I'm an Atheist, if it's possible for you to consider things from that perspective you would realize how misplaced your comments are. If there was a God, do you really think he'd need us to play conspiracy theorists for him?

Sorry if I'm snappy, but you caught me in a bad mood :) I'm usually a nice person...

Personally I come here to get away from the imposed theology of the witnesses... not to have it rammed down my throat again.

Peace out....

Moxie

edited: really, I'm normally really nice :) I respect your expression, I just don't agree with it at all...

real one

Moxie says:

I'm an Atheist, if it's possible for you to consider things from that perspective you would realize how misplaced your comments are. If there was a God, do you really think he'd need us to play conspiracy theorists for him?

Sorry if I'm snappy, but you caught me in a bad mood :) I'm usually a nice person...

You are probably agnostic. Cause if you are an athiest that means you know God dosent exist and im sure you would not say that because in order for you to say that, that would mean you know everything.

Malkiel always slips away when he is asked important questions

Moxie

You are probably agnostic. Cause if you are an athiest that means you know God dosent exist and im sure you would not say that because in order for you to say that, that would mean you know everything.

Hi Real One,

No, I am an Atheist... :) I do not believe there is a god; that's why I consider the initial post on this topic to be completely erroneous if not mildly comic... I guess I was just sugar coating... I hate being a raving b.i.t.c.h. ;)

As to knowing everything... I certainly wouldn't make that claim, but I do stand by my beliefs which are the result of my own sincere and objective study as well as scientific facts.

That said, as much as religious idiocy flabergasts me, I'm still a humanist that believes everyone has the right to their own beliefs.... I guess I put my faith in the psychological evolution of our species and hope that one day religion will be an embarassing memory that we look back at and wonder how we ever let ourselves believe such crap.

Sorry if I offend anyone out there, but I had to answer Real One :)

Cheers :)

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Hey Malkiel, welcome to JWD!

What will you do when the Great Tribulation begins?

Same thing I'd do if the Easter Bunny came after me with a chainsaw. I'd wake up, go to the restroom, and swear to never eat that much ice cream before bed ever again.

Now, if you would ask, "What will Billy do if the Great Tribulation begins?" I'd be ready to stand before God and remind him of all the sacrificed I'd made based on the WTBTS false prophecy of the end coming within 'this generation' of 70-80 years after 1914. I'd remind him of the work I'd done, presumably for him, at Bethel. I would be ready to ask God why he had never answered my prayers at several specific events in my life. I remained single and childless. I obediently never went to college or took work that would interfere with meeting schedules. I spent many years in Bethel. In spite of all the good I'd done, as other JWs admitted to me, I was treated like crap. All those sacrifices I'd done willingly, I've come to regret. I'd state plainly that if it was his will to continue to treat me like crap, please just destroy me. If life as a JW, my career in Bethel, and this 'spiritual paradise' is anything like the 'God's Kingdom' that I would be privileged to survive into, there'd better be Prozac growing on the trees and white zinfandel flowing in the rivers. My family have been JWs for generations. In the 60s, also when the end was 'so very near', my parents 'rebelliously' started their family rather than sign on as missionaries. I would ask God if I should never have been born, and my parents should be getting old, without any family to care for them today.

As for the things that appear to be leading to the big A. Yes, I am very concerned about present world conditions. I've been concerned about them my whole life. Every generation before me has been very concerned about world conditions of their time as well. Things appear to be much more serious today than at previous times. However, none of those things really prove that the JWs are "the truth".

B the X

What will you do when the Great Tribulation Begins?

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