by JosephAlward 58 Replies latest jw friends
Rem, addressing UnclePenn:
"There is just as much evidence for the Invisible Pink Unicorn and Thor as there is for the Christian God (none). Somehow with all of that untapped knowledge out there you have settled on the Christian god out of all of the other infinite possibilites. "
Alward comments:
Rem and UnclePenn are both atheists; Rem just believes in one less god than UnclePenn.
Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
Thanks for the voltaire NN.
unclebruce who wishes to see the last ignorant jesusfreak strangled with the guts of the last fanatical biblenut.
"I wish to see, and I mean this most sincerely, I wish to see the last King strangled with the guts of the last Priest." - Voltaire
Unclepenn
I was trying to be as breif as possible without going into arguements to back up my beliefs.
I also said: 'The other spiritual force seems to be what some people call a 'higher self'. This seems to be the origin of the unconditional love that some experience, which they mistake for god. It is continuoussly available to help, guide etc'
Does that make you feel a little less sad for me? I used to have all the answers. They ended up not fitting reality. Up to this point, what i wrote seems to match reality. It is subject to change.
In my world view, all is ultimately saved, being back w its source. All the sufferings will be just experiences in the end, if there is one. In your christian view, i would imagine that many end up suffering undescribably for eternity, or at least lost to annihalation. So, in which view is more love shown. Keep in mind that reincarnation is part of my view. Also if you love something you set it free. In my view, freedom is total.
Of course it will confuse you because you haven't gone the path i have. My belief system is open; yours is likely closed. By that i mean, that for you doctrines must fit inside the framework of the theology based on the bible and/or your church. If it does it for you, good.
SS
NOPE!!...OUTLAW
Hey Brother Joe
Since this is your thread, will you give us a hint on where you stand on this question? If you haven't formed a conclusion, that's okay too.
Uncle Rubber
You say we might be in a similar area of the field? Cool. Have you read about, or books of monroe inst? Have you done any of their tapes?
SS
something that im not sure you can appreciate joseph, without having lived it, is the overwhelming rigidity of JW beliefs. everything is tightly integrated, and there is no room to budge established beliefs by an iota. if elements of doctrine are decidedly unanswered (e.g. why did god create the dinosaurs) then no member should even speculate on the subject publicly, private speculation being discouraged. but if an element is decidedly clear (e.g. was the flood global) then certainly no one should speculate otherwise, even privately. and the space between absolute certainty and absolute unanswerability seems so scant as to be negligible. there is little room for any flexiblity at all.
so once a person comes to the point where they must remove a piece of the tightly integrated frame of belief due to incontrovertable evidence, it tends to bring the whole thing crashing down. if even an element of the bible is proven to be less than infallible, it tends to send the entire concept of god into irrevocable doubt.
the idea of an non-inerrantist, but still christian belief system, seems nearly unimaginable. WT literature scoffs at the rank hypocrisy of christian scholars that claim belief in god, while openly expressing belief in a non-literal interpretation of the bible. it seems to me that the vast majority of christians with a reasonably decent education fall into this category, and for some reason i still have difficulty grasping this idea. ex-JWs that find their way into this category seem to be fewer proportionately than the general population.
mox
SaintSatan:
I read of the work of the munroe institute while investigating remote viewing, witchcraft, the spirit world etc.. (by investigating I mean just that .. practical hands on experimentation and exploration) It's a field i have an ongoing interest in not entirely of my own choice. Things go thump in the night and even during the day around here. I have a vivid imagination but don't believe it levitates things.
I don't believe something until I try it myself, wether it be a new way of tightening my nuts or testing the electric current in a tree.
cheers, unclebruce
Uncle Bruce
Ah yes, joe mcmoneagle is one of the top remote veiwers. He is married to monroe's daughter. They now run the institute.
While i can't speak from experience, bruce moen who went through nonroe inst training, wrote 3 or 4 books about his course and after course experiences. It may have been the second book where he describes dealing w what you have at you home. It's not something that any gifted person can just do.
At any rate if you want to converse, i can unlock my email for a bit, or you can.
SS
SS, my email is no secret (just can't change my settings here or even post as unc :(
PS: Soon I'll be strictly a snail mail boy again but I'd be glad to swap experiences, you sound as sane as me lol.
Lee Freeman
po box 660
Bega 2550
Australia.
Moxy notes, "so once a person comes to the point where they must remove a piece of the tightly integrated frame of belief due to incontrovertable evidence, it tends to bring the whole thing crashing down. if even an element of the bible is proven to be less than infallible, it tends to send the entire concept of god into irrevocable doubt."
Alward responds: I completely agree. St. Augustine (354-430) was one of the founders of the Roman Catholic Church. He well understood that Christianity was like a house of cards; if the church dared to admit to even a single error in the Bible, who could say there wasn't an error on every page? The resurrection story might then be false and everyone's hopes are in vain. This is what he said:
"The most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books....If you [even] once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority one false statement, there will not be left a single sentence of those books, which, if appearing to anyone difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away as a statement, in which intentionally, the author declared what was not true." --St. Augustine in Epistula, p. 28.In response to Saint Satan’s question about my belief: I'm not aware of any evidence that there is, or ever was, a god who cared personally for anyone. I'm an atheist, and have been for almost as long as I have been old enough to form a reasoned opinion. Thanks for asking.
Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
