Athiest or Agnostic? (page 10)

Deputy Dog

Nark

My point is, it does apply to everyone. Athiests and Theists

Pantheism certainly comes into the picture, especially in the forms of popular Stoicism. However, I would suggest that Paul's own brand of "monotheism" has actually much in common with popular Stoicism (e.g. "from him and through him and to him are all things," 11:36), and the "Paul" of Acts 17 even more so ("'In him we live and move and have our being," v. 28).

If "it does apply to everyone. Athiests and Theists," as you say, the difference between theism and atheism is only secondary to Christianity...

hillary_step

Deputy,

I am still waiting to hear how you differentiate between the 'nature' of God, and his/her observable qualities, and yet not include any characteristics within that observation. I have posed the question in my most recent post above.

I would be interested to read your observations as what one can actually tell about God from the 'creation' as outlined in Romans 1:20 as you seem to be suggesting that personal characteristics, like 'love' for example, are excluded from the 'nature' and 'eternal godship' mentioned in the scripture that are easily observable by all people.

HS

Deputy Dog

HS

as you seem to be suggesting that personal characteristics, like 'love' for example,

Again, I believe you are reading something into my comments. But, I'll try to humor you.

Have you ever loved?

Have you ever been loved?

Have you ever seen someone love someone else?

If the answer to all these is no, then how can I make it any clearer via computer?

2) Another option is to take the words as true and conclude that God is a brutal and sociopathic liar. I state this against a backdrop of the fact that everything he 'designed' depended on the killing of other creatures, from microbe to blue whale in order to to survive. In order to facilitate such a Universal Killing Field, God introduces the idea of camouflage so that some are cunningly deceived into death, poisons so that some are brutally injected with toxic chemicals before being eaten, brute force so that some, like the Praying Mantis grabs its prey and eats it head-first, while it is alive. The thing this all has in common is a violence far removed from puffy clouds and gorgeous sunsets.

You seem to be quick to judge God with the evil that's revealed, but, in your own words you seem "far removed from " the positive.

If you are looking to judge God's Character, look at Christ in scripture. He is God revealed in (natural) human form.

hillary_step

Deputy Dog,

Are you going to answer my question, or as Narkissos observed are you going to try to slither from the issue?

Does Romans 1:20 suggest Godly attributes are 'readable' from nature or not?

HS

BurnTheShips

Does Romans 1:20 suggest Godly attributes are 'readable' from nature or not?

I won't slither. I hope DD won't mind.

Is your supposed "knockout punch" the assertion that a very nasty God is "readable" from the natural realm? Will you talk about those little parasitic insects again?

Nature gets personified:

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:22

Why?

It has been subjected to futility in hope that it may be glorified.

There is pain before the joy of a new child. We await a new earth.

BTS

Deputy Dog

D Dog takes his glasses off, scratches his head and asks for help.

Burn

Am I the only one that's missing something here? I know I'm not the best communicator on the board.

I don't know how to communicate to him that, human nature is part of creation. Human nature is full of examples of "love". I suppose I could try to give examples of love in animals, but if he can't see it in people...

Is this what is meant by Paul when he says "For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness''?

It appears that he sees the wrath of God in nature.

"God introduces the idea of camouflage so that some are cunningly deceived into death, poisons so that some are brutally injected with toxic chemicals before being eaten, brute force so that some, like the Praying Mantis grabs its prey and eats it head-first, while it is alive."

Nature gets personified:

I guess the slithering comment means I'm a snake?

hillary_step

Burn,

Yes, you have slithered from the issue.

Why not answer the question that I pose above regarding Romans 1:20?

I am not seeking 'knock out' punches for anyone, especially those who have been knocked out more times than is decent, I am looking for validation for an issue that Deputy raised, not myself.

Can either of you give me a straight answer?

HS

PS - I have no issue with a person stating, "I do not know", though such a statement seems alien to the religious mind. ;)

BurnTheShips

Burn,
Yes, you have slithered from the issue.
Why not answer the question that I pose above regarding Romans 1:20?
I am not seeking 'knock out' punches for anyone, especially those who have been knocked out more times than is decent, I am looking for validation for an issue that Deputy raised, not myself.
Can either of you give me a straight answer?
HS

Paul is saying that we can deduce God's invisible qualities from that which has been made. Specifically, the invisible qualities the "made things" reveal about God are his eternal power and divine nature. Paul then goes on in the verse and in v 21 to say that these leave those that do not worship God without excuse.

Does that answer the question to your satisfaction Hillary_Step? Or am I missing something? BTS-who is not above saying "I don't know".

Deputy Dog

HS

I don't have a problem saying "I don't know". I guess "I don't know" what you are asking!

What would you expect to see that you're not seeing?

Athiest or Agnostic?

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